[Vision2020] Douglas Wilson's Rationale: Logos School
Ted Moffett
ted_moffett@hotmail.com
Sun, 11 May 2003 01:00:39 +0000
All:
While I have not read the recent Daily News text that some are discussing
regarding the Logos School/Christ Church controversies, the recent U of I
Argonaut editorial and cartoon that satirized certain males associated with
Logos School also raised the issue of male representatives of Logos School
not offering sufficient rationale for keeping women off the Logos' school
board. I remember thinking that the editorial was not quite fair in it's
judgment that there was a lack of rationale that was put forth by these
Logo's males, or by Douglas Wilson, for the all male school board at Logos.
I thought that Wilson had indeed provided a rationale.
Douglas Wilson has just posted to vision2020 that his rationale (or his
church's rationale) on this issue has not been properly listened to or
understood. And now we have another post on vision2020 aimed at Logos
School men (or just Douglas Wilson?) querying them why women should not be
just as involved as men in their children's education, so how is this
consistent with keeping women off the Logos' school board? The writer
implies Douglas Wilson is not properly utilizing his philosophy education.
What I understand the explanation previously offered by Douglas Wilson on
this issue, at least in part is, as simply as I can state it, and put into
my own words, which means I am probably getting it wrong:
Women and men are different in ways that indicate they fulfill different
roles in society. To ignore this and expect women and men to all serve in
the same capacity in all roles in society is to ignore the facts of these
differences. To define these roles clearly and institutionalize rules that
give men certain roles that exclude women and women certain roles that
exclude men, is only to fulfill the natural order of things as God created
them. This does not imply women are being demeaned or degraded. In fact
Scripture indicates that misogyny is a sin, just as well as scripture
instructs differing roles for women and men. There is also a legal
vulnerability regarding the Logos school board that would be addressed by
making an official policy of allowing only men to serve on the school board.
Below I quote Douglas Wilson in his own words from various vision2020 posts
where he explains his position. The quotes "flesh out" the rationale given
above. I am in no way stating agreement with Douglas Wilson's position. I
am merely pointing out he has offered a rational for his views, which given
his religious assumptions, has an internal logic.
If anyone wants to disagree with this logic, they should start with the
fundamental assumptions underlying this world view, not in the "middle," as
it were, of a belief system that logically follows from the fundamental
assumptions in question.
I briefly outline these quotes content:
Quote 1: Legal concerns.
Quote 2: He answers Bill London's question "What should we tell our
daughters?" and outlines differing roles of women and men as God indicates.
Quote 3: He mentions the honored position women have in his world view,
based on Scripture, in providing "Wisdom," and how much he has personally
learned from women. He points out the first rate education his daughters'
received.
Quote 4: He asserts misogyny is a sin.
Quote 5: He quotes a poem which I assume is meant to elucidate the position
that women and men are different (thus different roles in society?) but
neither sex is "better."
I include all these quotes below:
Mon. April 7 2003, vision2020, Douglas Wilson:
"But for those who really are interested, conservative Christians believe
that the apostle Paul prohibits women from serving as elders or pastors of
churches (1 Tim. 2:12-15). This is the nearest scriptural prohibition to
our point of discussion, and it does not apply. The text is not addressing
school boards but rather sessions of elders. The serious concern at Logos
is whether our informal emphasis (encouraging men to be involved in the
education of their children) has resulted in a de facto situation that
leaves the school in a vulnerable position. Courts have regularly found de
facto circumstances as evidence of illegal discrimination, and they have
also had a regrettable tendency to not understand the distinction between
private and public. So, this is one proposed precaution -- which hasn't
even passed yet."
Tues. April 8 2003, vision2020, Douglas Wilson:
"Dear visionaries,
Warren notes that Bill London's question has gone unanswered in the flurry
of discussion. What should we tell our daughters? We should teach them what
we believe, which is that men are called by God to sacrifice, love, lead,
provide, protect and honor, and women are called to answer this with
respect, wisdom, counsel, nurture, and skillful management. I am aware of
the fact that all this is perfectly appalling in our egalitarian era, but
there it is."
Tues. April 8 2003, vision2020, Douglas Wilson:
"Given the rhetorical distance between our camps, this kind of assumption is
certainly a natural one, but I do want to do more than nuance it. If I were
to list the top three people I have learned the most from, living or dead,
two of them would be women. I have three children, two of them women, and
by the grace of God I saw to it that they all got the same (first-rate)
education. One of them did her undergraduate thesis on how various forms of
mistreatment of women are reflections and applications of various
Trinitarian heresies.
And all this is consistent with what Scripture teaches. In the book of
Proverbs, wisdom is a woman. The Christian church is a woman, the bride of
Christ. In the book of Acts, Priscilla and Aquila take Apollos aside, and
together they set him straight in his teaching. And if I began spouting
some egalitarian nonsense, I know of a number of modern Christian women who
would be happy to do the same for me."
Wed. April 9 2003, vision2020, Douglas Wilson:
"Misogyny is a sin because God hates it, and He will judge
those guilty of unrepentant continuance in this sin on the Last Day, along
with those guilty of other sins against His Word."
Wed. April 9 2003, vision2020, Douglas Wilson:
John Danahy just simply assumes that such a practice would entail "second
class citizenship for women." But this shows how wildly divergent our
foundational assumptions are. I will simply seek to answer this with a poem
of Chesterton's called Comparisons.
If I set the sun beside the moon,
And if I set the land beside the sea,
And if I set the town beside the country,
And if I set the man beside the woman,
I suppose some fool would talk about one being better.
Ted
>From: Douglas <dougwils@moscow.com>
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>CC: trgarfield@turbonet.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Logos School
>Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 10:12:12 -0700
>
>Dear visionaries,
>
>A brief response to Bill London. The reason Tom Garfield's response did not
>interact with the controversy and criticism is that from the very beginning
>(Vera's comments) the facts have been consistently misrepresented. Logos
>School found itself in an editorial inkbath created by journalistic
>ineptitude, and in contrast to this, Tom simply stated what our history has
>been, and what our mission actually is.
>
>With regard to the "denial of leadership opportunities to women," Bill's
>formulation *again* misrepresents what actually happened. Why should we
>continue to explain this when the explanations are not heard? I suggest
>that Bill formulate what we have already said in this regard. When he can
>state accurately what we have already said, then perhaps we could debate
>the question itself. But until he knows what the question is, we should
>best save our breath for cooling our porridge.
>
>The Civil War: Logos School teaches the history of that war, the causes of
>it, the sin on both sides, and the nobility on both sides. It was not a
>battle between light and darkness, elves and orcs. If you believe
>otherwise, in that simplistic, progressivist kind of way, the best we can
>do is leave you with your daily Orwellian two minutes of hate. The kind of
>mind that cannot see nobility in slave-owners like George Washington,
>Thomas Jefferson, and Robert E. Lee is the kind of mind that cannot see
>nobility anywhere. The kind of mind that cannot see fanaticism in the
>abolitionists and the Carolingian fire-eaters is the kind of mind that is
>content with its own fanaticism.
>
>Cordially,
>
>
>Douglas Wilson
>
>Bill London said:
>I could take the administration of the Logos School much more seriously
>if they were more straightforward in their public pronouncements.
>For example, the editorial Friday in the Daily News by the Logos
>principal.
>That "editorial" did not respond to, or refer to, the published
>contraversies surrounding that school, like their denial of leadership
>opportunities to women or their honoring of the slave-holding American
>Confederacy.
>Instead, we were treated to a piece of pure fluff, a pat-on-the-back
>kind of feature that would have been more appropriately an
>advertisement.
>BL
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
All:
When I put on my hat of philosophical detachment, a most soothing and
comfortable hat that alientates the wearer from 99.9 percent of the human
race while also incurring their enmity, I can play hop-scotch with
ideological systems of all kinds, attempting to inhabit from the inside
these differing logical belief systems. If only most people on earth would
sincerely attempt this exercise: I am idealistic enough (or is it naive?)
to imagine much hatred and suffering and war would thereby be eliminated.
My problem is keeping the hat on! It is knocked off rather easily, by my
own passions or contradictions or weaknesses, or the external demands of a
world hell bent on tribal war with the loyalties demanded to fullfill these
hatred inducing ideologies.
While I have not read the Daily News
I read the recent U of I Argonaut editorial and cartoon that satirized
certain males associated with Logos School. I remember thinking that the
editorial was not quite fair in it's judgement that there was a lack of
rationale that was put forth by these Logo's males, one of whom I assume is
Douglas Wilson, for the all male school board at Logos. I indeed thought
that Wilson had provided a rationale.
Douglas Wilson has just posted to vision2020 that his rationale (or his
church's rationale) on this issue has not been properly listened to or
understood. And now we have another post on vision2020 aimed at Logo's men
querrying why women should not be just as involved as men in their
children's education, so how is this consistent with keeping women off the
Logos' school board, and furthermore implying Douglas Wilson is not properly
utilizing his philosophy education.
What I understand the explanation by Douglas Wilson to be is, as simply as I
can state it:
>From: Douglas <dougwils@moscow.com>
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>CC: trgarfield@turbonet.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Logos School
>Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 10:12:12 -0700
>
>Dear visionaries,
>
>A brief response to Bill London. The reason Tom Garfield's response did not
>interact with the controversy and criticism is that from the very beginning
>(Vera's comments) the facts have been consistently misrepresented. Logos
>School found itself in an editorial inkbath created by journalistic
>ineptitude, and in contrast to this, Tom simply stated what our history has
>been, and what our mission actually is.
>
>With regard to the "denial of leadership opportunities to women," Bill's
>formulation *again* misrepresents what actually happened. Why should we
>continue to explain this when the explanations are not heard? I suggest
>that Bill formulate what we have already said in this regard. When he can
>state accurately what we have already said, then perhaps we could debate
>the question itself. But until he knows what the question is, we should
>best save our breath for cooling our porridge.
>
>The Civil War: Logos School teaches the history of that war, the causes of
>it, the sin on both sides, and the nobility on both sides. It was not a
>battle between light and darkness, elves and orcs. If you believe
>otherwise, in that simplistic, progressivist kind of way, the best we can
>do is leave you with your daily Orwellian two minutes of hate. The kind of
>mind that cannot see nobility in slave-owners like George Washington,
>Thomas Jefferson, and Robert E. Lee is the kind of mind that cannot see
>nobility anywhere. The kind of mind that cannot see fanaticism in the
>abolitionists and the Carolingian fire-eaters is the kind of mind that is
>content with its own fanaticism.
>
>Cordially,
>
>
>Douglas Wilson
>
>Bill London said:
>I could take the administration of the Logos School much more seriously
>if they were more straightforward in their public pronouncements.
>For example, the editorial Friday in the Daily News by the Logos
>principal.
>That "editorial" did not respond to, or refer to, the published
>contraversies surrounding that school, like their denial of leadership
>opportunities to women or their honoring of the slave-holding American
>Confederacy.
>Instead, we were treated to a piece of pure fluff, a pat-on-the-back
>kind of feature that would have been more appropriately an
>advertisement.
>BL
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
All:
When I put on my hat of philosophical detachment, a most soothing and
comfortable hat that alientates the wearer from 99.9 percent of the human
race while also incurring their enmity, I can play hop-scotch with
ideological systems of all kinds, attempting to inhabit from the inside
these differing logical belief systems. If only most people on earth would
sincerely attempt this exercise: I am idealistic enough (or is it naive?)
to imagine much hatred and suffering and war would thereby be eliminated.
My problem is keeping the hat on! It is knocked off rather easily, by my
own passions or contradictions or weaknesses, or the external demands of a
world hell bent on tribal war with the loyalties demanded to fullfill these
hatred inducing ideologies.
While I have not read the Daily News
I read the recent U of I Argonaut editorial and cartoon that satirized
certain males associated with Logos School. I remember thinking that the
editorial was not quite fair in it's judgement that there was a lack of
rationale that was put forth by these Logo's males, one of whom I assume is
Douglas Wilson, for the all male school board at Logos. I indeed thought
that Wilson had provided a rationale.
Douglas Wilson has just posted to vision2020 that his rationale (or his
church's rationale) on this issue has not been properly listened to or
understood. And now we have another post on vision2020 aimed at Logo's men
querrying why women should not be just as involved as men in their
children's education, so how is this consistent with keeping women off the
Logos' school board, and furthermore implying Douglas Wilson is not properly
utilizing his philosophy education.
What I understand the explanation by Douglas Wilson to be is, as simply as I
can state it:
>From: Douglas <dougwils@moscow.com>
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>CC: trgarfield@turbonet.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Logos School
>Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 10:12:12 -0700
>
>Dear visionaries,
>
>A brief response to Bill London. The reason Tom Garfield's response did not
>interact with the controversy and criticism is that from the very beginning
>(Vera's comments) the facts have been consistently misrepresented. Logos
>School found itself in an editorial inkbath created by journalistic
>ineptitude, and in contrast to this, Tom simply stated what our history has
>been, and what our mission actually is.
>
>With regard to the "denial of leadership opportunities to women," Bill's
>formulation *again* misrepresents what actually happened. Why should we
>continue to explain this when the explanations are not heard? I suggest
>that Bill formulate what we have already said in this regard. When he can
>state accurately what we have already said, then perhaps we could debate
>the question itself. But until he knows what the question is, we should
>best save our breath for cooling our porridge.
>
>The Civil War: Logos School teaches the history of that war, the causes of
>it, the sin on both sides, and the nobility on both sides. It was not a
>battle between light and darkness, elves and orcs. If you believe
>otherwise, in that simplistic, progressivist kind of way, the best we can
>do is leave you with your daily Orwellian two minutes of hate. The kind of
>mind that cannot see nobility in slave-owners like George Washington,
>Thomas Jefferson, and Robert E. Lee is the kind of mind that cannot see
>nobility anywhere. The kind of mind that cannot see fanaticism in the
>abolitionists and the Carolingian fire-eaters is the kind of mind that is
>content with its own fanaticism.
>
>Cordially,
>
>
>Douglas Wilson
>
>Bill London said:
>I could take the administration of the Logos School much more seriously
>if they were more straightforward in their public pronouncements.
>For example, the editorial Friday in the Daily News by the Logos
>principal.
>That "editorial" did not respond to, or refer to, the published
>contraversies surrounding that school, like their denial of leadership
>opportunities to women or their honoring of the slave-holding American
>Confederacy.
>Instead, we were treated to a piece of pure fluff, a pat-on-the-back
>kind of feature that would have been more appropriately an
>advertisement.
>BL
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
All:
When I put on my hat of philosophical detachment, a most soothing and
comfortable hat that alientates the wearer from 99.9 percent of the human
race while also incurring their enmity, I can play hop-scotch with
ideological systems of all kinds, attempting to inhabit from the inside
these differing logical belief systems. If only most people on earth would
sincerely attempt this exercise: I am idealistic enough (or is it naive?)
to imagine much hatred and suffering and war would thereby be eliminated.
My problem is keeping the hat on! It is knocked off rather easily, by my
own passions or contradictions or weaknesses, or the external demands of a
world hell bent on tribal war with the loyalties demanded to fullfill these
hatred inducing ideologies.
While I have not read the Daily News
I read the recent U of I Argonaut editorial and cartoon that satirized
certain males associated with Logos School. I remember thinking that the
editorial was not quite fair in it's judgement that there was a lack of
rationale that was put forth by these Logo's males, one of whom I assume is
Douglas Wilson, for the all male school board at Logos. I indeed thought
that Wilson had provided a rationale.
Douglas Wilson has just posted to vision2020 that his rationale (or his
church's rationale) on this issue has not been properly listened to or
understood. And now we have another post on vision2020 aimed at Logo's men
querrying why women should not be just as involved as men in their
children's education, so how is this consistent with keeping women off the
Logos' school board, and furthermore implying Douglas Wilson is not properly
utilizing his philosophy education.
What I understand the explanation by Douglas Wilson to be is, as simply as I
can state it:
>From: Douglas <dougwils@moscow.com>
>To: vision2020@moscow.com
>CC: trgarfield@turbonet.com
>Subject: [Vision2020] Logos School
>Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 10:12:12 -0700
>
>Dear visionaries,
>
>A brief response to Bill London. The reason Tom Garfield's response did not
>interact with the controversy and criticism is that from the very beginning
>(Vera's comments) the facts have been consistently misrepresented. Logos
>School found itself in an editorial inkbath created by journalistic
>ineptitude, and in contrast to this, Tom simply stated what our history has
>been, and what our mission actually is.
>
>With regard to the "denial of leadership opportunities to women," Bill's
>formulation *again* misrepresents what actually happened. Why should we
>continue to explain this when the explanations are not heard? I suggest
>that Bill formulate what we have already said in this regard. When he can
>state accurately what we have already said, then perhaps we could debate
>the question itself. But until he knows what the question is, we should
>best save our breath for cooling our porridge.
>
>The Civil War: Logos School teaches the history of that war, the causes of
>it, the sin on both sides, and the nobility on both sides. It was not a
>battle between light and darkness, elves and orcs. If you believe
>otherwise, in that simplistic, progressivist kind of way, the best we can
>do is leave you with your daily Orwellian two minutes of hate. The kind of
>mind that cannot see nobility in slave-owners like George Washington,
>Thomas Jefferson, and Robert E. Lee is the kind of mind that cannot see
>nobility anywhere. The kind of mind that cannot see fanaticism in the
>abolitionists and the Carolingian fire-eaters is the kind of mind that is
>content with its own fanaticism.
>
>Cordially,
>
>
>Douglas Wilson
>
>Bill London said:
>I could take the administration of the Logos School much more seriously
>if they were more straightforward in their public pronouncements.
>For example, the editorial Friday in the Daily News by the Logos
>principal.
>That "editorial" did not respond to, or refer to, the published
>contraversies surrounding that school, like their denial of leadership
>opportunities to women or their honoring of the slave-holding American
>Confederacy.
>Instead, we were treated to a piece of pure fluff, a pat-on-the-back
>kind of feature that would have been more appropriately an
>advertisement.
>BL
>
>
>_____________________________________________________
>List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net
> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
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