[Vision2020] Apathetic Liberals
Dale Courtney
dmcourtn@moscow.com
Sun, 14 Dec 2003 05:54:37 -0800
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MessageSaundra,
I wanted to comment on your last paragraph. Ms. Drollinger went by the =
name "Stoneman" for the 4 years her kids were at Logos. That's the name =
that she went by in the Logos community, and that's the name that we =
know her by.=20
So that's the name we're accustomed to addressing her by.=20
I'm more than willing to use Drollinger, if that's her preference. No =
disrespect or ill-will was intended.=20
Best,
Dale
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Saundra Lund=20
To: 'Dale Courtney' ; vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 17:44
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Apathetic Liberals
Dale,
Like Rose, I didn't attend the . . . gathering. Nor was I able to =
attend the alternative gathering. But, I *am* interested in viewing the =
video (assuming it's unedited) -- please tell me how I would go about =
doing that (assuming the invitation to view the video isn't restricted =
just to Rose).
Whether the hecklers were Christ Church members or not, Rose's point =
is still valid, perhaps even *more* valid if the hecklers weren't =
affiliated with Christ Church/Logos/NSA: how is it a crowd (250-300, =
yourself included since you were apparently there) sat there and did =
virtually nothing while Ms. Drollinger was "escorted" from the =
meeting??? If the hecklers weren't, in fact, affiliated with Christ =
Church/Logos/NSA, then why the HECK didn't those in charge of the =
meeting attempt to STOP the reprehensible behavior???
And, why did Mr. Wilson try to *prevent* Ms. Drollinger from speaking? =
Personally, I find the reported assertion that there's no =
corporate/government (LOL)/institutional connection between Christ =
Church & Logos . . . lame as a very brief perusal of the primary Web =
sites will quickly prove. I may have been born at night, but I wasn't =
born last night!
Additionally, I'm curious about the presence of at least one uniformed =
Moscow Police Department officer at the . . . gathering. Why did he do =
nothing when Ms. Drollinger was "escorted" from the meeting? Unwanted =
aggressive physical contact in the presence of MPD is OK??? What was =
the purpose of MPD presence at the . . . gathering? How did that =
presence come about?
<sigh>
I guess I shouldn't say much until I get a chance to view the video, =
so please tell me how I (and anyone else interested in viewing it is =
welcome to join me) would go about seeing it.
BTW, perhaps I'm nit-picking here, but . . . Dale, why do you =
repeatedly refer to Ms. Drollinger as "Mrs. Stoneman"? It seems hurtful =
and just plain wrong to continue to use her married name when she =
divorced her convicted abuser several years ago (if I correctly read the =
info, she divorced that man in 1998 and didn't come to Whitman County =
until 1999). She refers to herself with the surname 'Drollinger' now, =
which is apparently her legal name, so why show disrespect by referring =
to her with the surname of her convicted abuser?
Thanks,
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to =
do nothing.
-Edmund Burke=20
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com =
[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On Behalf Of Dale Courtney
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:48 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Apathetic Liberals
Rose,
Hate to burst your bubble; but those people who were shouting were =
not Christ Church members. It was all video taped. One man in the =
back-center of the auditorium shouted for her to "sit down and shut up". =
Mrs. Stoneman asked "are you a Christ Church member" and he yelled "no!" =
Then that same man got up, walked down to the front, and escorted her =
out. He was an older gentleman; unlikely he is a bouncer (though he may =
have been one 40 years ago).=20
When she further said "the public wants to know!", another non-CC =
man from the middle left said "we are the public! Sit down and shut up!" =
=20
Feel free to verify this with anyone who was there -- or you can =
check the video.
What Mrs. Stoneman needs is our prayers, support, and sympathy. =
She's been thru hell (read thru all the articles over at =
http://www.valuachild.com/ to see what she and her children have been =
thru).=20
And, yes, I wish you had been there too. It would have been nice to =
meet you and Don at last.
Best,
Dale
----- Original Message -----=20
From: DonaldH675@aol.com=20
To: vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 14:30
Subject: [Vision2020] Apathetic Liberals
Dear Visionaries,
=20
Although I sent one of the earliest "Thanks but no thanks" posts =
to Doug's invitation to attend his "Town Meeting," I am now deeply sorry =
I didn't make the effort. (and a giant penance it would have been.) to =
attend. Others had told me that a woman was escorted out of the meeting =
amid shouts of "Shut Up and "Sit Down" Thanks to Ruth's email I have a =
clearer sense of the events.
=20
Anyone who sat silently with their ass glued to their seat while =
the shouting and escorting out was taking place shouldn't shrink, in my =
opinion, from placing their collective bums on folding chairs in the =
Logos gym every Sunday morning while Doug channels his weekly sermon =
from R.L. Dabney. (Be sure to bring your wallets and pocket books for =
the offering.) In your silent assent you were cooperating/supporting the =
racist, sexist, homophobic, patriarchal agenda of Christ Church (pastor =
and communicants), or even more pathetically, falling prey to Doug's =
purported charisma. Shame to you! You were handed a classic example of =
how dissent is silenced and yet, there you sat, either unwilling or =
unable to protest - failing to get up and walk out yourself. It is my =
hope that none of you excuse your inaction under the ruse of not knowing =
how to respond to an awkward social situation, or wanting to avoid =
public embarrassment. That is pure baloney. Spineless is the kindest =
descriptions that comes to my mind - closely followed by the term =
limousine liberal. And God knows, there have always been a plethora of =
those folks in university towns. YIKES!!!=20
=20
Rose Huskey
=20
And what's with the bouncer stuff - Doug traveling with his =
private security squad these days? Talk about delusional grandiosity. =
I'll be on the look for the stretch limo next.
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<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Saundra,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>I wanted to comment on your =
last=20
paragraph. Ms. Drollinger went by the name "Stoneman" for the 4 years =
her kids=20
were at Logos. That's the name that she went by in the Logos community, =
and=20
that's the name that we know her by. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>So that's the name we're =
accustomed to=20
addressing her by. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>I'm more than willing to =
use=20
Drollinger, if that's her preference. No disrespect or ill-will was =
intended.=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Best,<BR>Dale</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Dsslund@adelphia.net =
href=3D"mailto:sslund@adelphia.net">Saundra=20
Lund</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Ddmcourtn@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:dmcourtn@moscow.com">'Dale Courtney'</A> ; <A=20
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 13, =
2003=20
17:44</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] =
Apathetic=20
Liberals</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Dale,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Like Rose, =
I didn't attend the .=20
. . gathering. Nor was I able to attend the alternative =
gathering. =20
But, I *am* interested in viewing the video (assuming it's unedited) =
-- please=20
tell me how I would go about doing that (assuming the invitation to =
view the=20
video isn't restricted just to Rose).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Whether the hecklers were Christ =
Church=20
members or not, Rose's point is still valid, perhaps even *more* valid =
if the=20
hecklers weren't affiliated with Christ Church/Logos/NSA: =
how=20
is it a crowd (250-300, yourself included since you =
were=20
apparently there) sat there and did virtually =
nothing while Ms.=20
Drollinger was "escorted" from the meeting??? If the hecklers =
weren't,=20
in fact, affiliated with Christ Church/Logos/NSA, then why the =
HECK=20
didn't those in charge of the meeting attempt to STOP the =
reprehensible=20
behavior???</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>And, why did Mr. Wilson try to =
*prevent*=20
Ms. Drollinger from speaking? Personally, I find =
the reported=20
assertion that there's no corporate/government (LOL)/institutional =
connection=20
between Christ Church & Logos . . . lame as a very brief perusal =
of the=20
primary Web sites will quickly prove. I may have been born at =
night, but=20
I wasn't born last night!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Additionally, I'm curious about =
the=20
presence of at least one uniformed Moscow Police Department officer at =
the . .=20
. gathering. Why did he do nothing when Ms. Drollinger was =
"escorted"=20
from the meeting? Unwanted aggressive physical contact in =
the=20
presence of MPD is OK??? What was the purpose of MPD =
presence=20
at the . . . gathering? How did that presence come =
about?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003><sigh></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>I guess I shouldn't =
say much until I=20
get a chance to view the video, so please tell me how I (and =
anyone else=20
interested in viewing it is welcome to join me) would go about seeing=20
it.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>BTW, perhaps I'm nit-picking =
here, but . .=20
. Dale, why do you repeatedly refer to Ms. Drollinger as "Mrs.=20
Stoneman"? It seems hurtful and just plain wrong to continue to =
use her=20
married name when she divorced her convicted abuser several years ago =
(if I=20
correctly read the info, she divorced that man in 1998 and didn't come =
to=20
Whitman County until 1999). She refers to herself with the =
surname=20
'Drollinger' now, which is apparently her legal name, so why show =
disrespect by referring to her with the surname of her =
convicted=20
abuser?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Thanks,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN>Saundra<SPAN=20
class=3D750401400-14122003> Lund</SPAN><BR>Moscow, ID<BR><BR>The only =
thing=20
necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do =
nothing.<BR>-Edmund=20
Burke </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
<B>On=20
Behalf Of </B>Dale Courtney<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 13, =
2003 3:48=20
PM<BR><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[Vision2020]=20
Apathetic Liberals<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Rose,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Hate to burst your =
bubble; but=20
those people who were shouting were <U>not</U> Christ Church =
members. It was=20
all video taped. One man in the back-center of the =
auditorium shouted=20
for her to "sit down and shut up". Mrs. Stoneman asked "are you a =
Christ=20
Church member" and he yelled "no!" Then that same man got=20
up, walked down to the front, and escorted her out. =
He was an=20
older gentleman; unlikely he is a bouncer (though he may have been =
one 40=20
years ago). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>When she =
further said "the=20
public wants to know!", another non-CC man from the middle left said =
"we are=20
the public! Sit down and shut up!" </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Feel free to verify =
this with=20
anyone who was there -- or you can check the video.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>What Mrs. Stoneman =
needs is our=20
prayers, support, and sympathy. She's been thru hell (read thru all =
the=20
articles over at <A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.valuachild.com/">http://www.valuachild.com/</A> t=
o see=20
what she and her children have been thru). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>And, yes, I wish you =
had been there=20
too. It would have been nice to meet you and Don at =
last.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Best,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Dale</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- =
</DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3DDonaldH675@aol.com=20
href=3D"mailto:DonaldH675@aol.com">DonaldH675@aol.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December =
13, 2003=20
14:30</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] =
Apathetic=20
Liberals</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Dear Visionaries,</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Although I sent one of the =
earliest =93Thanks=20
but no thanks=94 posts to Doug=92s invitation to attend his =
=93Town Meeting,=94 I=20
am now deeply sorry I didn=92t make the effort. (and a giant =
penance it=20
would have been.) to attend.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>Others had told me that a woman was escorted out of the =
meeting=20
amid shouts of =93Shut Up and =93Sit Down=94 <SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Thanks to Ruth=92s email =
<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I have a clearer sense of =
the=20
events.</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Anyone who sat silently with =
their ass glued=20
to their seat while the shouting and escorting out was taking =
place=20
shouldn=92t shrink, in my opinion, from placing their collective =
bums on=20
folding chairs in the Logos gym every Sunday morning while Doug =
channels=20
his weekly sermon from R.L. Dabney.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes"> =20
</SPAN>(Be sure to bring your wallets and pocket books for the =
offering.)=20
In your silent assent you were cooperating/supporting the racist, =
sexist,=20
homophobic, patriarchal agenda of=20
<st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Christ</st1:PlaceName> =
<st1:PlaceType>Church=20
(pastor and communicants)</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, or even =
more=20
pathetically, falling prey to Doug=92s purported charisma. Shame =
to=20
you!<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>You were =
handed a=20
classic example of how dissent is silenced and yet, there you sat, =
either=20
unwilling or unable to protest =96 failing to get up and walk out=20
yourself.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It is my =
hope that=20
none of you excuse your inaction under the ruse of not knowing how =
to=20
respond to an awkward social situation, or wanting to avoid =
public=20
embarrassment.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> That is pure =
baloney</SPAN>.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN>Spineless is=20
the kindest descriptions that comes to my mind =96 closely =
followed by the=20
term limousine liberal.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> =
</SPAN><SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And God knows, there have =
always=20
been a plethora of those folks in university towns. YIKES!!! =
</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Rose Huskey</FONT></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3> </FONT></o:p></P>
<P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT=20
face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>And what=92s with the bouncer =
stuff =96 Doug=20
traveling with his private security squad these days?<SPAN=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Talk about delusional=20
grandiosity.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I=92ll =
be on the=20
look for the stretch limo=20
next.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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