[Vision2020] Apathetic Liberals

Saundra Lund sslund@adelphia.net
Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:44:58 -0800


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Dale,
=20
Like Rose, I didn't attend the . . . gathering.  Nor was I able to =
attend
the alternative gathering.  But, I *am* interested in viewing the video
(assuming it's unedited) -- please tell me how I would go about doing =
that
(assuming the invitation to view the video isn't restricted just to =
Rose).
=20
Whether the hecklers were Christ Church members or not, Rose's point is
still valid, perhaps even *more* valid if the hecklers weren't =
affiliated
with Christ Church/Logos/NSA:  how is it a crowd (250-300, yourself =
included
since you were apparently there) sat there and did virtually nothing =
while
Ms. Drollinger was "escorted" from the meeting???  If the hecklers =
weren't,
in fact, affiliated with Christ Church/Logos/NSA, then why the HECK =
didn't
those in charge of the meeting attempt to STOP the reprehensible =
behavior???
=20
And, why did Mr. Wilson try to *prevent* Ms. Drollinger from speaking?
Personally, I find the reported assertion that there's no
corporate/government (LOL)/institutional connection between Christ =
Church &
Logos . . . lame as a very brief perusal of the primary Web sites will
quickly prove.  I may have been born at night, but I wasn't born last =
night!
=20
Additionally, I'm curious about the presence of at least one uniformed
Moscow Police Department officer at the . . . gathering.  Why did he do
nothing when Ms. Drollinger was "escorted" from the meeting?  Unwanted
aggressive physical contact in the presence of MPD is OK???  What was =
the
purpose of MPD presence at the . . . gathering?  How did that presence =
come
about?
=20
<sigh>
=20
I guess I shouldn't say much until I get a chance to view the video, so
please tell me how I (and anyone else interested in viewing it is =
welcome to
join me) would go about seeing it.
=20
BTW, perhaps I'm nit-picking here, but . . . Dale, why do you repeatedly
refer to Ms. Drollinger as "Mrs. Stoneman"?  It seems hurtful and just =
plain
wrong to continue to use her married name when she divorced her =
convicted
abuser several years ago (if I correctly read the info, she divorced =
that
man in 1998 and didn't come to Whitman County until 1999).  She refers =
to
herself with the surname 'Drollinger' now, which is apparently her legal
name, so why show disrespect by referring to her with the surname of her
convicted abuser?
=20
=20
Thanks,
Saundra Lund
Moscow, ID

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to =
do
nothing.
-Edmund Burke=20

-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] =
On
Behalf Of Dale Courtney
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:48 PM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Apathetic Liberals


Rose,
=20
Hate to burst your bubble; but those people who were shouting were not
Christ Church members. It was all video taped. One man in the =
back-center of
the auditorium shouted for her to "sit down and shut up". Mrs. Stoneman
asked "are you a Christ Church member" and he yelled "no!" Then that =
same
man got up, walked down to the front, and escorted her out. He was an =
older
gentleman; unlikely he is a bouncer (though he may have been one 40 =
years
ago).=20
=20
When she further said "the public wants to know!", another non-CC man =
from
the middle left said "we are the public! Sit down and shut up!" =20
=20
Feel free to verify this with anyone who was there -- or you can check =
the
video.
=20
What Mrs. Stoneman needs is our prayers, support, and sympathy. She's =
been
thru hell (read thru all the articles over at http://www.valuachild.com/ =
to
see what she and her children have been thru).=20
=20
And, yes, I wish you had been there too. It would have been nice to meet =
you
and Don at last.
=20
Best,
Dale
=20
=20

----- Original Message -----=20
From: DonaldH675@aol.com=20
To: vision2020@moscow.com=20
Sent: Saturday, December 13, 2003 14:30
Subject: [Vision2020] Apathetic Liberals


Dear Visionaries,

=20

Although I sent one of the earliest "Thanks but no thanks" posts to =
Doug's
invitation to attend his "Town Meeting," I am now deeply sorry I didn't =
make
the effort. (and a giant penance it would have been.) to attend.  Others =
had
told me that a woman was escorted out of the meeting amid shouts of =
"Shut Up
and "Sit Down"  Thanks to Ruth's email  I have a clearer sense of the
events.

=20

Anyone who sat silently with their ass glued to their seat while the
shouting and escorting out was taking place shouldn't shrink, in my =
opinion,
from placing their collective bums on folding chairs in the Logos gym =
every
Sunday morning while Doug channels his weekly sermon from R.L. Dabney.  =
(Be
sure to bring your wallets and pocket books for the offering.) In your
silent assent you were cooperating/supporting the racist, sexist,
homophobic, patriarchal agenda of Christ Church (pastor and =
communicants),
or even more pathetically, falling prey to Doug's purported charisma. =
Shame
to you!  You were handed a classic example of how dissent is silenced =
and
yet, there you sat, either unwilling or unable to protest - failing to =
get
up and walk out yourself.  It is my hope that none of you excuse your
inaction under the ruse of not knowing how to respond to an awkward =
social
situation, or wanting to avoid public embarrassment. That is pure =
baloney.
Spineless is the kindest descriptions that comes to my mind - closely
followed by the term limousine liberal.   And God knows, there have =
always
been a plethora of those folks in university towns. YIKES!!!=20

=20

Rose Huskey

=20

And what's with the bouncer stuff - Doug traveling with his private =
security
squad these days?  Talk about delusional grandiosity.  I'll be on the =
look
for the stretch limo next.


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<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Dale,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Like Rose, =
I&nbsp;didn't&nbsp;attend the . .=20
. gathering.&nbsp; Nor was I able to attend the alternative =
gathering.&nbsp;=20
But, I *am* interested in viewing the video (assuming it's unedited) -- =
please=20
tell me how I would go about doing that (assuming the invitation to view =
the=20
video isn't restricted just to Rose).</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Whether the hecklers were Christ =
Church=20
members or not, Rose's point is still valid, perhaps even *more* valid =
if the=20
hecklers&nbsp;weren't affiliated with Christ Church/Logos/NSA:&nbsp; how =

is&nbsp;it a&nbsp;crowd&nbsp;(250-300, yourself included since you were=20
apparently there)&nbsp;sat there and did&nbsp;virtually =
nothing&nbsp;while Ms.=20
Drollinger was "escorted" from the meeting???&nbsp; If the hecklers =
weren't, in=20
fact,&nbsp;affiliated with Christ Church/Logos/NSA, then why the HECK =
didn't=20
those in charge of the meeting attempt to STOP the reprehensible=20
behavior???</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>And, why did Mr. Wilson try to =
*prevent* Ms.=20
Drollinger from speaking?&nbsp; Personally, I find the&nbsp;reported =
assertion=20
that there's no corporate/government (LOL)/institutional connection =
between=20
Christ Church &amp; Logos . . . lame as a very brief perusal of the =
primary Web=20
sites will quickly prove.&nbsp; I may have been born at night, but I =
wasn't born=20
last night!</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Additionally, I'm curious about =
the presence=20
of at least one uniformed Moscow Police Department officer at the . . .=20
gathering.&nbsp; Why did he do nothing when Ms. Drollinger was =
"escorted" from=20
the meeting?&nbsp;&nbsp;Unwanted aggressive physical contact in the =
presence=20
of&nbsp;MPD&nbsp;is OK???&nbsp; What was the purpose of MPD presence at =
the . .=20
. gathering?&nbsp; How did that presence come about?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>&lt;sigh&gt;</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>I guess I shouldn't say&nbsp;much =
until I=20
get&nbsp;a chance to view the video, so please tell me how I (and anyone =
else=20
interested in viewing it is welcome to join me) would go about seeing=20
it.</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>BTW, perhaps I'm nit-picking here, =
but . . .=20
Dale, why do you repeatedly refer to Ms. Drollinger as "Mrs. =
Stoneman"?&nbsp; It=20
seems hurtful and just plain wrong to continue to use her married name =
when she=20
divorced her convicted abuser several years ago (if I correctly read the =
info,=20
she divorced that man in 1998 and didn't come to Whitman County until=20
1999).&nbsp; She refers to herself with the surname 'Drollinger' now, =
which is=20
apparently her legal name, so why&nbsp;show disrespect by&nbsp;referring =
to=20
her&nbsp;with the surname of her convicted abuser?</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003>Thanks,</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D750401400-14122003></SPAN>Saundra<SPAN=20
class=3D750401400-14122003> Lund</SPAN><BR>Moscow, ID<BR><BR>The only =
thing=20
necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do =
nothing.<BR>-Edmund=20
Burke </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr =
align=3Dleft><FONT=20
  face=3DTahoma>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] <B>On =
Behalf=20
  Of </B>Dale Courtney<BR><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 13, 2003 3:48=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =
[Vision2020]=20
  Apathetic Liberals<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Rose,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Hate to burst your =
bubble; but those=20
  people who were shouting were <U>not</U> Christ Church members. It was =
all=20
  video taped. One man in the back-center of the auditorium&nbsp;shouted =
for her=20
  to "sit down and shut up". Mrs. Stoneman asked "are you a Christ =
Church=20
  member" and he yelled "no!" Then that same man got =
up,&nbsp;walked&nbsp;down=20
  to the front,&nbsp;and escorted her out. He was an older gentleman; =
unlikely=20
  he is a bouncer (though he may have been one 40 years ago). =
</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>When she =
further&nbsp;said "the=20
  public wants to know!", another non-CC man from the middle left said =
"we are=20
  the public! Sit down and shut up!"&nbsp; </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Feel free to verify this =
with anyone=20
  who was there -- or you can check the video.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>What Mrs. Stoneman needs =
is our=20
  prayers, support, and sympathy. She's been thru hell (read thru all =
the=20
  articles over at&nbsp;<A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.valuachild.com/">http://www.valuachild.com/</A>&nbsp;t=
o see=20
  what she and her children have been thru). </FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>And, yes, I wish you had =
been there=20
  too. It would have been nice to meet you and Don at last.</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Best,</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>Dale</FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
  style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
    <DIV=20
    style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
    <A title=3DDonaldH675@aol.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:DonaldH675@aol.com">DonaldH675@aol.com</A> </DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3Dvision2020@moscow.com=20
    href=3D"mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> =
</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, December 13, =
2003=20
    14:30</DIV>
    <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] =
Apathetic=20
    Liberals</DIV>
    <DIV><BR></DIV>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D3>Dear Visionaries,</FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D3>Although I sent one of the earliest &#8220;Thanks but no =
thanks&#8221; posts to=20
    Doug&#8217;s invitation to attend his &#8220;Town Meeting,&#8221; I =
am now deeply sorry I=20
    didn&#8217;t make the effort. (and a giant penance it would have =
been.) to=20
    attend.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>Others had =
told me that=20
    a woman was escorted out of the meeting amid shouts of &#8220;Shut =
Up and &#8220;Sit=20
    Down&#8221; <SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</SPAN>Thanks to =
Ruth&#8217;s email=20
    <SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</SPAN>I have a clearer =
sense of the=20
    events.</FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D3>Anyone who sat silently with their ass glued to their seat =
while the=20
    shouting and escorting out was taking place shouldn&#8217;t shrink, =
in my opinion,=20
    from placing their collective bums on folding chairs in the Logos =
gym every=20
    Sunday morning while Doug channels his weekly sermon from R.L. =
Dabney.<SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>(Be sure to bring your =
wallets and=20
    pocket books for the offering.) In your silent assent you were=20
    cooperating/supporting the racist, sexist, homophobic, patriarchal =
agenda of=20
    <st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Christ</st1:PlaceName> =
<st1:PlaceType>Church=20
    (pastor and communicants)</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>, or even more=20
    pathetically, falling prey to Doug&#8217;s purported charisma. Shame =
to you!<SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>You were handed a classic =
example of=20
    how dissent is silenced and yet, there you sat, either unwilling or =
unable=20
    to protest &#8211; failing to get up and walk out yourself.<SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>It is my hope that none of =
you=20
    excuse your inaction under the ruse of not knowing how to respond to =
an=20
    awkward social situation, or&nbsp;wanting to avoid public=20
    embarrassment.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;That is pure=20
    baloney</SPAN>.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN>Spineless is=20
    the kindest descriptions that comes to my mind &#8211; closely =
followed by the=20
    term limousine liberal.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN><SPAN=20
    style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</SPAN>And God knows, there have =
always been=20
    a plethora of those folks in university towns. YIKES!!! </FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D3>Rose Huskey</FONT></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><o:p><FONT=20
    face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3>&nbsp;</FONT></o:p></P>
    <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><FONT =
face=3D"Times New Roman"=20
    size=3D3>And what&#8217;s with the bouncer stuff &#8211; Doug =
traveling with his private=20
    security squad these days?<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</SPAN>Talk=20
    about delusional grandiosity.<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;=20
    </SPAN>I&#8217;ll be on the look for the stretch limo=20
next.</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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