[Vision2020] Virgin Birth
Nicholas Gier
ngier@uidaho.edu
Sat, 13 Dec 2003 17:44:42 -0800
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--Boundary_(ID_GR3hEp5VT8Q+PlmHvFQo2w)
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-disposition: inline
Dear Visionaries:
I am sad to see Doug Wilson leave us, especially now that I'm just warming up for some good debates. As Doug goes off to celebrate the Incarnation (at least some Christians know what they're celebrating!), I just want to remind Doug that his son-in-law Ben Merkle appears to agree with our Unitarian martyr (and earlier ancient commentators, thanks to Ben's scholarship)that the doctrine of the Virgin Birth is based on a mistranslation. That means that the author of Matthew, who made it his business to find Messianic prophecies in practically every verse of the Old Testament (even though they clearly were not there), misused Isaiah 7:14. How many other major mistake did the author(s) make?
And what is your position on the historical accuracy of the verse and the doctrine, Ben?
Nick Gier
--Boundary_(ID_GR3hEp5VT8Q+PlmHvFQo2w)
Content-type: message/rfc822
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Return-path: <vision2020-admin@moscow.com>
Received: from conversion-daemon.mailA.its.uidaho.edu by mailA.its.uidaho.edu
(Go Vandals!) id <0HPT007012DOMM@mailA.its.uidaho.edu>; Fri,
12 Dec 2003 15:25:21 -0800 (PST)
Received: from snow (mailB [129.101.155.251])
by mailA.its.uidaho.edu (Go Vandals!)
with ESMTP id <0HPT00CI22E8QW@mailA.its.uidaho.edu>; Fri,
12 Dec 2003 15:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from conversion-daemon.mailB.its.uidaho.edu by mailB.its.uidaho.edu
(Go Vandals!) id <0HPT00F011R143@mailB.its.uidaho.edu>; Fri,
12 Dec 2003 15:25:20 -0800 (PST)
Received: from whale2.fsr.net (whale2.fsr.net [207.141.26.23])
by mailB.its.uidaho.edu (Go Vandals!)
with ESMTP id <0HPT0065W2E2T1@mailB.its.uidaho.edu>; Fri,
12 Dec 2003 15:25:15 -0800 (PST)
Received: from whale2.fsr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1])
by whale2.fsr.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id hBCNP9Wv060003; Fri,
12 Dec 2003 15:25:09 -0800
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:24:01 -0800
From: vision2020-request@moscow.com
Subject: Vision2020 digest, Vol 1 #1072 - 4 msgs
Sender: vision2020-admin@moscow.com
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Errors-to: vision2020-admin@moscow.com
Reply-to: vision2020@moscow.com
Message-id: <20031212232401.56591.82387.Mailman@whale2.fsr.net>
MIME-version: 1.0
X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.10
Content-type: text/plain
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
Precedence: bulk
X-BeenThere: vision2020@moscow.com
X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.10
List-Post: <mailto:vision2020@moscow.com>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists2.fsr.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/vision2020>,
<mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com?subject=subscribe>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists2.fsr.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/vision2020>,
<mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists2.fsr.net/pipermail/vision2020/>
List-Help: <mailto:vision2020-request@moscow.com?subject=help>
List-Id: Moscow/Latah county community discussion list <vision2020.moscow.com>
Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
vision2020@moscow.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists2.fsr.net/cgi-bin/listinfo/vision2020
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
vision2020-request@moscow.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
vision2020-admin@moscow.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. RE: Reply to Ben Merkle (Mike Lawyer)
2. Blessings (Douglas)
3. TALK SHOW 12/14/03: ADAM WILSON, Lewiston Trib. Political writer (Tim Lohrmann)
4. RE: AHA returns? (John Danahy)
--__--__--
Message: 1
From: "Mike Lawyer" <mike_l@moscow.com>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Reply to Ben Merkle
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 12:19:13 -0800
Hello all,
I know this note from Dr. Gier came out last week, but it has been rattling
around in my mind every since. And I don't have anything bad to say about
him, but something he said and something that others have assumed brought
something to my mind that I thought I ought to share.
Dr. Gier said: "There you will find my scholarship: four books, six book
chapters, 35 articles, 20 book reviews, and 80 regional, national, and
international presentations."
There seems to be a lot of weight thrown around when someone mentions that
they have academic credentials. Someone will say, "I've spent a great number
of years working on a masters degree and..." The assumption is that
therefore you should listen to me. Now this may or may be a sound argument,
but that isn't my point.
My point is this, there is a character in the Bible (the Apostle Paul) who
had every bit as prestigious a pedigree as Dr. Gier and any other of us, but
who thought very differently about it. He said:
If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have
more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe
of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; as for
zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless.
But whatever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing
greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all
things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ and be found in him,
not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which
is through faith in Christ-- the righteousness that comes from God and is by
faith. I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the
fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and
so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. (Philippians
3:4-12)
I realize I'm am nobody. I do have a couple of degrees, but instead of
jumping on the intellectual band wagon, I prefer to think of myself being
more like Paul. I too would like to consider my academic achievements as
filthy rags that I might gain Christ and be known by him and counted by him
as being righteous.
I don't know how many ways you can interpret this text. It seems pretty
straight forward to me, but it seems to me that this is one of the main
points of being a Christian. What are you doing with Christ? What is the
goal of your life?
Dr. Gier says his training is in theology, which is the study of God. I have
no doubt that he knows a lot about theology, but what about knowing God? Is
Dr. Gier a joyful, winsome man? Is he characterized by light and glory? Does
his person exhibit the fact that he knows and is loved by the wonderful God
of creation?
I don't know Dr. Gier at all. And I'm not really directing these questions
at Dr. Gier specifically, but rather to the broader audience who reads this
list. Where is your life going? Are you working at being filled with
happiness or is it coming because you know the living God? Do you have the
same attitude toward your personal wealth and accomplishments that the
Apostle Paul had? Are you willing to die for your Lord who gave his life for
you?
God tells everyone to change your mind from being self-centered to being God
centered. Understand that Jesus came into the world to save sinners. We're
all sinners in need of saving. Turn to him, love him, serve him.
Thanks again.
Mike Lawyer
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On
Behalf Of Nicholas Gier
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2003 12:01 AM
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Reply to Ben Merkle
I will be happy to answer Ben Merkle's questions in the handy Yes or No
format that he has so graciously copied from me. I will, however, make a
few qualifications and comments in the process. This will be a lot more
edifying than the faux sounds of torture that his father-in-law Doug Wilson
made in answering my questions. He could easily have made some qualifying
comments as well, but I guess he always wants to be evasive and never
direct.
Over two months ago Ben e-mailed me about the sources for my column on
Calvin and Servetus published in the Daily News on Sept. 24. I told him
that my primary source was Laurence and Nancy Goldstones' highly acclaimed
book "Out of the Flames." Check out the book reviews on amazon.com for their
credentials.
At first Ben said that the Goldstones' work was a good book, but then he
changed his mind and said it was a very bad book. Initially he said that he
would hold me responsible only for my errors not the Goldstones', but now he
seems to have taken that back as well.
He also said that he would contact the Goldstones about their references,
but so far he has not taken that very important step. Until he does I will
not take his attack as very credible, and I will continue to stand by my use
of this excellent book.
For those who saw my letter in the Daily News, some of this will be a
rehash of some issues that Ben just won't let go of.
Now, to Ben's questions:
1. Dr Gier, do you consider this column to be a scholarly and well
researched work, written in an even handed fashion and intended to build
bridges not walls? Yes or No?
NO. You will not find this piece or any of my many other columns on my CV.
There you will find my scholarship: four books, six book chapters, 35
articles, 20 book reviews, and 80 regional, national, and international
presentations.
This was a column written to provoke discussion. My own pastor and other
congregants thought that it was too polemical. Because of their hesitation,
the column went through many revisions so as to please them. My suspicions
about bridge building were confirmed by Doug Jones' incredible attack on
Forrest Church, who came to build bridges and speak about the art of living
well. He did not expect to be hit over the head with the Trinity and all
that nonsense about hermit theology. So I'm glad that I kept my column the
way I intended it.
2. Or do you consider this column to be a hack job of research penned after
reading one pop book on the subject and full of the sorts of factual errors
that would make any PhD blush, written with the intent to whip the good
people of Moscow into a religious frenzy? Yes or No?
NO. Although certainly not my specialty, I did pass my qualifying exam in
Reformation Theology. I did keep up over the years with a special interest
in Luther. In fact, I tried to correct a mistake that Wilson made about
Luther some time ago, but he ignored me. When I learned that Wilson was now
a Calvinist (and no longer a "New Testament Christian"), I started reviewing
some material on Calvinism to prepare for opportunities to debate my
infamous former student.
Goldstones' "good book," initially according to Ben, is now a "pop book,"
but he has failed to contact the authors or to check their references. Ben
read the book so carelessly that I had to point out the references that I
used that he said he could not find. I will stand by the Goldstones until
Ben does his promised homework.
3. Dr. Gier, did you carefully weigh all of the facts and cheek the primary
sources for all of your factual assertions in a manner befitting to your
diploma and with the diligence of an autumn squirrel gathering his nuts? Yes
or No?
NO, because I was writing a column and trusted the Goldstones as scholars
with very good reputations. Do you check every reference of every book that
you use to teach your classes? I didn't think so.
4. Dr. Gier, did you assert that Servetus was the first to debate the
Christian reading of Isaiah 7:14? Yes or No?
YES. I read it in the Goldstones' book.
5. Dr. Gier, did you know that if you had done more than thirty or forty
seconds of research you would have discovered that this debate is as old as
the hills and goes all the way back through the rabbinic traditions of the
great Kimhis all the way to Trypho, of "Justin Martyr's dialogue with" fame
and to credit Servetus with its introduction makes some of us get teary eyed
with snickering? Yes or No?
NO. I wasn't present to confirm whether you and your companions were either
crying or snickering. This is possible mistake that you should offer to the
Goldstones, but the scholarly approach to making such a point should be one
of humble correction not juvenile one-upmanship.
On this point, Ben shows unusually keen skills in historical-critical
scholarship. Does that mean that he applies similar scholarship to the
composition of the Old and New Testaments, scholarship that shows very
clearly the very human character of the formation of religious scripture?
For example, would he affirm the same ancient rabbinic scholarship that
shows that the Christian reading of the Suffering Servant of Isaiah is
totally at odds with Jewish tradition and the straight reading of the text?
Fundamentalists such as Ben and his colleagues use historical-critical
scholarship only when it suits their purposes, but turn around and reject it
as "liberal" when it doesn't. There is no intellectual integrity in their
biblical hermeneutic!
5. Dr. Gier, did you assert that Calvin had "absolute authority in Geneva"?
Yes or No? YES
6. Dr. Gier, did you know that even a casual reading of some of the research
done in this field would reveal to you that the man didn't even have the
right to vote until a couple of years before his death and that he never had
the right to hold any civic office? Did you know that when I tell people who
actually study Calvin about your assertion, I have to make sure that they
aren't in the middle of taking a drink of milk, because I don't want it to
come out their nose? Yes or No?
NO. I'm glad that I was not present to witness such a disgusting sight. Who
said that the right to vote gave anyone authority over another? The people
of Geneva once decided to send Calvin down the road because they did not
like his authoritarian manner, but, incredibly enough, they invited him to
come back. Calvin came back only on his terms,a generous wine ration being
one of those conditions.
In my column I was speaking of Calvin's theological authority, not his
political authority. For example, one day a man challenged him during a
sermon and Calvin had him arrested. I'm away from Moscow, so I don't have
my books or my notes, so I can't remember whether this man was severely
punished or executed outright. Calvin's Geneva was roughly like present day
Iran: there was an elected assembly and then there were the pastors who
strictly controlled the moral and spiritual lives of the citizens. Calvin
was the head pastor and no one dared to cross him. Many authorities have
documented that the slightest infraction were punishable by stiff fines or
imprisonment.
7. Dr. Gier, did you already have to correct the fact that you invented the
assertion about Calvin going out to pick the greenest wood in order to make
the burning of Servetus really long and painful, because it turned out that
Calvin didn't want him burned (which kinda ruins the whole theme of your
column)? Yes or No?
YES. I made that correction in a letter to Daily News, but NO it does not
ruin the theme of my column at all. The theme of my column was to show how
Calvin and Luther betrayed the religious freedom of the Protestant
Reformation. Why did hundreds of thousands have to die because Catholics,
Calvinists, and Lutherans claim to know who the real Christians were? I
also wanted to celebrate the martyrdom of Servetus and to also acknowledge
the fact that Servetus' descendents (many of the Founding Fathers were
proto-Unitarians)finally gave the world the religious freedom promised by
the Protestant Reformation.
8. Dr. Gier, did you think the previous seven questions were really,
really,really, fair and unbiased and that they were written in such a way as
to give you a chance to fully explain your position and to clear up any
ambiguities in this debate? Did you think that this would be a great venue
for you to explain yourself to an audience that was obviously willing to
hear your answers and to consider your answers in an open-minded way? Yes or
No?
YES!!! I thoroughly enjoyed the opportunity to explain myself. I wish
that your pastor and father-in-law had done the same. I certainly did not
say that he couldn't make comments or qualifications. Knowing how evasive
Wilson is, I thought requiring a Yes or No first would pin him down, but
alas, he just wanted to play with us. But for future reference, please try
to restrain yourself at the end of your questions.
Thanks for the dialogue, Ben.
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////
--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 11:18:13 -0800
To: vision2020@moscow.com
From: Douglas <dougwils@moscow.com>
Subject: [Vision2020] Blessings
Visionaries,
As I indicated earlier, I am unsubscribing from this list in just a few
minutes. If I may be allowed just a few comments as I go, I would
appreciate it. Four things.
First, I want to thank everyone from this list who came to the meeting last
night. I was glad to meet a number of you, and appreciated the opportunity
to answer all the questions that we were able to get to. Thank you.
Second, I appreciate those who have asked me to stay on the list. While I
still think I need to go, I am not becoming a recluse, or going away mad.
As we emphasized at the meeting last night, we live here, and we know we
have civic responsibilities related to that. This departure is part of
that. Since Vision 20/20 is not a moderated list, and since there is
something about my boyish smile that whips a certain kind of person into a
froth, I think it is only reasonable for me to do something else for a
while. Because the People of the Clenched Jaw, not to mention the People of
Exuberant Slander, cannot be made to go, I think it only reasonable for the
person who sets them off to do so voluntarily. In other words, my absence
will likely mean the absence of some others as well. And Scripture says,
"Where no wood is, there the fire goeth out: so where there is no
talebearer, the strife ceaseth. As coals are to burning coals, and wood to
fire; so is a contentious man to kindle strife. The words of a talebearer
are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly"
(Prov. 26:20-22).
Third, if any issue comes up related to this fracas that absolutely
*demands* a response from us, our session of elders still has a committee
that could supply any necessary answers in a timely way. The overall
situation in Moscow remains much as it was, with a few key
misunderstandings removed. For many of us, we have moved to understanding
our disagreements, which certainly remain. There will be other debates,
other situations, and (I hope) other conversations such as many of us had
last night. But as far as I am concerned, in this slavery discussion, you
can deal me out not.
And last, please permit a generic pastoral warning against the corrosive
effects of bitterness. As I have counseled many over the years with regard
to this problem, I have seen that bitterness never stays put. The author of
Hebrews put it this way: "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without
which no man shall see the Lord: Looking diligently lest any man fail of
the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and
thereby many be defiled" (Heb. 12:14-15). Bitterness is a root, and roots
gather nutrients. And if bitterness is nurtured and tolerated in any area,
it grows until the point when it springs up and defiles many. Those "many"
may not be the Evil Others who set you off in the first place -- too often
the many who are defiled by it are those who are closest to you. Bitterness
is a true corrosive, and Jesus Christ offers a way out of that bondage
through the grace of God.
So if you will excuse me, I am heading off to prepare for the celebration
of the Incarnation. God made flesh in a virgin's womb, and nothing will
ever be the same again. Merry Christmas.
Cordially,
Douglas Wilson
--__--__--
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:13:22 -0800 (PST)
From: Tim Lohrmann <timlohr@yahoo.com>
To: vision2020@moscow.com
Cc: aerial@uidaho.edu
Subject: [Vision2020] TALK SHOW 12/14/03: ADAM WILSON, Lewiston Trib. Political writer
--0-1361567424-1071267202=:83562
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Visionaries/Aerialites,
At 9 a.m. on Sunday 12/14/03 MOSCOW MORNING VIEWS, a talk show on KUOI 89.3 FM in Moscow(web audio on KUOI.org) will feature the following guest:
--(9-10 am) Adam Wilson, political and news writer for the Lewiston Morning Tribune, will be in the studio to discuss local politics, including the controversy surrounding Doug Wilson, the upcoming historical conference sponsored by New St. Andrews College and etc.
--(10-11 am) We will continue the discussion with Adam Wilson and possibly have time to move on to other topics.
MOSCOW MORNING VIEWS is aired live every Sunday Morning from 9-11 am on KUOI 89.3 FM and streamed live via the internet on KUOI's website(KUOI.org)
Call in phone #'s: 885-6392 or 885-6393
Anyone with comments, questions or suggestions for guests can send e-mail to: timlohr@yahoo.com OR call the studio after the show at the numbers above.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
--0-1361567424-1071267202=:83562
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Visionaries/Aerialites, </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>At 9 a.m. on Sunday 12/14/03 MOSCOW MORNING VIEWS, a talk show on KUOI 89.3 FM in Moscow(web audio on KUOI.org) will feature the following guest: </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> --(9-10 am) Adam Wilson, political and news writer for the Lewiston Morning Tribune, will be in the studio to discuss local politics, including the controversy surrounding Doug Wilson, the upcoming historical conference sponsored by New St. Andrews College and etc.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> --(10-11 am) We will continue the discussion with Adam Wilson and possibly have time to move on to other topics.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>MOSCOW MORNING VIEWS is aired live every Sunday Morning from 9-11 am on KUOI 89.3 FM and streamed live via the internet on KUOI's website(KUOI.org) </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Call in phone #'s: 885-6392 or 885-6393 </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Anyone with comments, questions or suggestions for guests can send e-mail to: timlohr@yahoo.com OR call the studio after the show at the numbers above. </DIV></DIV></DIV><p><hr SIZE=1>
Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a href="http://pa.yahoo.com/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=21260/*http://photos.yahoo.com">New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing</a>
--0-1361567424-1071267202=:83562--
--__--__--
Message: 4
From: "John Danahy" <jdanahy@turbonet.com>
To: "'Vision2020'" <vision2020@moscow.com>
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] AHA returns?
Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2003 15:22:50 -0800
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3C0C3.D1506B10
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Visionaries:
=20
The recent post by Bill London regarding a city report by Gary Riedner
contains some comments that should be of interest to all area residents.
=20
First, is:
Current buildings in Alturas Technology Park are not acceptable and =
rents
are too high to be attractive, especially with the current tax structure =
in
place in Idaho.
=20
This highlights some of the problems the Alturas Park has had attracting =
new
businesses. The other parks that are often compared to Alturas =
apparently
are wholly owned by their respective governmental agencies, and can =
charge
lease rates that are competitive and also have a reasonable tax/fee
structure. Moscow doesn't, and therefore cannot compete on a level =
playing
field. This makes comparisons untenable.
=20
Second is:=20
After reviewing costs, AHA determined that moving to Idaho would cost =
the
company an additional $370,000 per year. After reviewing AHA figures =
with
the Idaho Department of Commerce and the Idaho Tax Commission, the LEDC =
has
brought the cost down to $50,000 per year.
=20
This, in a nutshell, is the problem that Moscow must address. It is a
problem that is exasperated by an economic plan that relies solely on =
the UI
for economic well being. The UI pays no property taxes to the area, and
thus we, the residents and other businesses, must make up for the =
missing
tax base. If UI did pay, then the current tax rate would be, IMHO, at =
least
fifty percent less. This would make the cost of doing business here in
Moscow competitive, if not down right lucrative, for businesses looking =
to
move here.
=20
Third is:
CEDA has prepared a Rural Community Block Grant application to the Idaho
Department of Commerce, requesting $500,000 to assist in the design,
development and construction of a building within the current Phase of =
the
Alturas Technology Park. The entire cost of the building is =
approximately
$1,300,000 and the balance will be paid by means of a commercial loan. =
CEDA
and LEDC have requested City sponsorship of the RCBG application.
=20
This is a great idea, as long as it does not include an expansion of the
current park into Phase Two. But it is also a band aid approach to =
solve a
festering problem. Time has come to look again at our community and =
where
we really want to go over the next twenty years and how we are going to
achieve our goals.
=20
John
=20
=20
=20
=20
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3C0C3.D1506B10
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<meta name=3DGenerator content=3D"Microsoft Word 10 (filtered)">
<style>
<!--
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
span.EmailStyle17
{font-family:Arial;
color:black;
font-weight:normal;
font-style:normal;
text-decoration:none none;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body bgcolor=3Dwhite lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dpurple>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Visionaries:</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>The recent
post by </span></font><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>Bill
London</span></font><font face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-family:Arial'>
regarding a city report by Gary Riedner contains some comments that =
should be
of interest to all area residents.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>First,
is:</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><b><i><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Current buildings in =
</span></font></i></b><ST1:PLACE><ST1:PLACENAME><b><i><span
=
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Alturas</span></i></b></ST1:=
PLACENAME><b><i><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> =
</span></i></b><ST1:PLACENAME><b><i><span
=
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Technology</span></i></b></S=
T1:PLACENAME><b><i><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> =
</span></i></b><ST1:PLACETYPE><b><i><span
=
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Park</span></i></b></ST1:PLA=
CETYPE></ST1:PLACE><b><i><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> are not acceptable and =
rents are
too high to be attractive, especially with the current tax structure in =
place
in </span></i></b><ST1:STATE><ST1:PLACE><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold;
=
font-style:italic'>Idaho</span></i></b></ST1:PLACE></ST1:STATE><b><i><spa=
n
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>.</span></i></b></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>This
highlights some of the problems the </span></font>Alturas Park has had
attracting new businesses. The other parks that are often compared =
to
Alturas apparently are wholly owned by their respective governmental =
agencies,
and can charge lease rates that are competitive and also have a =
reasonable
tax/fee structure. Moscow doesn’t, and therefore cannot =
compete on
a level playing field. This makes comparisons untenable.</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Second is: </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><b><i><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>After reviewing costs, AHA =
determined that
moving to </span></font></i></b><st1:State><st1:place><b><i><span
=
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Idaho</span></i></b></st1:pl=
ace></st1:State><b><i><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> would cost the company an
additional $370,000 per year. After reviewing AHA figures with the =
Idaho
Department of Commerce and the </span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold;font-style:italic'>Idaho</span></i></b><b><i><span =
style=3D'font-weight:
bold;font-style:italic'> Tax Commission, the LEDC has brought the cost =
down to
$50,000 per year.</span></i></b></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>This, in a
nutshell, is the problem that </span></font>Moscow must address. =
It is a
problem that is exasperated by an economic plan that relies solely on =
the UI
for economic well being. The UI pays no property taxes to the =
area, and
thus we, the residents and other businesses, must make up for the =
missing tax
base. If UI did pay, then the current tax rate would be, IMHO, at =
least fifty
percent less. This would make the cost of doing business here in =
Moscow competitive,
if not down right lucrative, for businesses looking to move here.</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Third is:</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><b><i><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>CEDA has prepared a Rural Community =
Block
Grant application to the Idaho Department of Commerce, requesting =
$500,000 to
assist in the design, development and construction of a building within =
the
current Phase of the =
</span></font></i></b><st1:place><st1:PlaceName><b><i><span
=
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Alturas</span></i></b></st1:=
PlaceName><b><i><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> =
</span></i></b><st1:PlaceName><b><i><span
=
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Technology</span></i></b></s=
t1:PlaceName><b><i><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'> =
</span></i></b><st1:PlaceType><b><i><span
=
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Park</span></i></b></st1:Pla=
ceType></st1:place><b><i><span
style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>. The entire cost of the =
building is
approximately $1,300,000 and the balance will be paid by means of a =
commercial
loan. CEDA and LEDC have requested City sponsorship of the RCBG =
application.</span></i></b></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>This is a
great idea, as long as it does not include an expansion of the current =
park
into Phase Two. But it is also a band aid approach to solve a =
festering
problem. Time has come to look again at our community and where we =
really
want to go over the next twenty years and how we are going to achieve =
our
goals.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>John</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.5in'><font =
size=3D3
color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> </span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>
------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C3C0C3.D1506B10--
--__--__--
_____________________________________________________
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
End of Vision2020 Digest
--Boundary_(ID_GR3hEp5VT8Q+PlmHvFQo2w)--