[Vision2020] What Should We Do About Mexico?

[Art Deco]

Andreas, et al,

With regard to the post allegedly from Mr. Stambler:

I do not know who sent it.  It might well have been Mr. Stambler.

However, any Vision 2020 member familiar with his previous posts could with
ease imitate his style and content.  Skilled technicians can make an email
appear to come from anywhere.  For a while I was plagued by commercial and
fanatic religious emails that appeared to come from my own email address!

I admit that I am intolerant of criminal activities and dishonesty and also
of organizations and individuals who are anti-egalitarian, sexists,
homophobic, racist, theocratic, etc.

I support all legal means including dialogue, education, demonstrations,
boycotts, etc to discourage organizations and individuals who are
anti-egalitarian, sexists, homophobic, racist, theocratic, etc.  I do this
because I would like to live in a society where each individual is
encouraged to develop themselves freely and fully (except for oblivious
anti-social activity such as killing, dope peddling, etc) unfettered by
preconceptions, unfounded prejudice, and/or popular superstition including
religion.


The reports of the alleged criminal incidents against Christ Church
financial supporters sadden me in two ways:

First, I do not believe in such tactics because they are both criminal and
counterproductive.

Secondly, it is not clear who all is perpetrating these alleged acts.

I am sadly reminded of an incident in Boundary County earlier this year.
The home and property of a mixed race couple was set afire, vandalized, and
various racist symbols were implanted.  After an investigation by the
sheriff, the couple confessed to the acts themselves to distract attention
from certain serious criminal acts and to gain sympathy.  Having lived in
other areas where unpopular political and/or religious groups have pulled
similar stunts to gain sympathy and to distract from and to disguise their
sometimes abhorrent views and actions, I remain skeptical whenever any of
these groups claim criminal persecution.

>From the evidence known to me at this time, there is nothing to show that
for at least some of these alleged acts are not perpetrated by cult members.
Such activity is not unheard of and is not inconsistent with some of their
past underhanded tactics and their arrogant, supremely egomaniacal dismissal
of everyone else's beliefs, intelligence, reasoning, and reading abilities.

Some of the alleged acts at issue such as spitting may also be the work of
drunks who do not know who they are spitting upon.  Other downtown
businesses are not immune from such despicable actions, especially on
week-ends.

Before judgments are made about who the perpetrators are, we need more
facts.  It would be a serious error to attribute all the alleged criminal
acts to just those that are against the anti-social, anti-individual
teachings of the Christ Church cult.



On another note, I am glad to see that at least some of the religious
professionals of the community have had the courage to speak out publicly
against the cult's message and tactics.  Perhaps more will have the courage
show they act in accordance with their professed faith and beliefs.


Wayne Fox

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andreas Schou" <scho8053@uidaho.edu>
To: <vision2020@moscow.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] What Should We Do About Mexico?


>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Art Deco <deco@moscow.com>
> Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2003 5:04 pm
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] What Should We Do About Mexico?
>
> > There is no way to tell with certainty that the original message
> > below comes from Douglas Stambler, IP or not.  A knowledgeable
> > technician (such as Mr. Courtney) could make an email seem to come
> > from any IP -- that's the way spammers work.  In fact, the
> > language and content of the message is similar to Douglas Wilson's
> > sarcastic (but revealing) answers to Nick Gier's questions sent
> > with the intent that it would be attributed to Mr. Stambler.  It
> > is also in line with the "O poor me" card the cult is now playing.
> > Some of the alleged harassment incidents made be wholly fantastic
> > or perpetrated by cult members in an attempt to generate sympathy.
> >
> > Also, perhaps it was a cult member or leader that disseminated the
> > infamous flyer.  The flyer contained no factual misinformation.
> > If a cult member or leader sent it out and was subsequently
> > caught, they could say it was a cutsey but honest method of
> > gaining publicity.
> >
> > Further:  What branch of the Presbyterian Church does the cult
> > claim to belong to?  The last 2020 discussion of this ended with
> > Wilson's admission that he styles the cult a Presbyterian one not
> > because of affiliation but because of the form of cult government.
>
> Oh, come off it.
>
> I disagree with Doug in almost every particular of his beliefs, but I
think I can fairly say that shooting people that come over the border is not
one of them. Posting things in someone else's name is simply not
appropriate. Though I agree that Doug Wilson couldn't've possibly found a
more convincing argument for his side than the existence of Doug Stambler, I
am more than willing to attribute Stambler's posts to Wilson's good luck
rather than his malice.
>
> Also: I know the people that posted the (factually acurate!) poster. Doug
had nothing to do with it. I think I can fairly say that the "publicity"
he's gotten has been fairly negative, all told.
>
> -- ACS
>
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