[Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?

Donovan Arnold donovanarnold@hotmail.com
Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:31:59 -0700


Tom,

Those are just the American Casulties, what about the others?

Donovan Arnold






>From: "Tom Hansen" <thansen@moscow.com>
>Reply-To: <thansen@moscow.com>
>To: "Dale Courtney" <dale@courtneys.us>,   "'vision2020'" 
><vision2020@moscow.com>
>Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
>Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 06:28:17 -0700
>
>MessageGreetings Visionaires -
>
>There is a statistical breakdown of the 58,178 casualties of the Vietnam 
>War
>at:
>
>http://thewall-usa.com/stats/index.html
>
>Tom Hansen
>Moscow, Idaho
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]On
>Behalf Of Dale Courtney
>   Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 10:26 PM
>   To: 'vision2020'
>   Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
>
>
>   Ms. Huskey. You said that "a rich mix of non-whites in the frontlines of
>combat."
>
>   Can you tell me what the death rate has been for minorities on the front
>line?
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com]
>On Behalf Of Melynda Huskey
>     Sent: Sunday, 06 April, 2003 21:04
>     To: Dale Courtney; vision2020
>     Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
>
>
>     Dale Courtney suspects that I'd be either surprised or in denial if I
>knew what the demographics of the U.S. Armed Forces are.  I'm not sure why
>he thinks so, but in the interests of extending the boundaries of 
>knowledge,
>I took a quick look at "Population Representation in the Military Service
>Fiscal Year 2002," a darned compelling little read by the Department of
>Defense.
>
>     Blacks represent 20% of total enlisted personnel (approximately 6% 
>more
>than their representation in the general population)--23% in the Army, and
>less in other branches.  They also represent 8% of active duty officers.
>
>     Latinos are under-represented in all branches of the services as
>enlisted personnel, except in the Marine Corps, where they have reached
>parity with the general population.
>
>     "Other," which includes multi-racial, Asian, Native American, and
>Pacific Islanders, are slightly over-represented in enlisted populations.
>
>     16% of all officers are non-white across all branches of the service.
>
>     I didn't bother to get the details on the drastic under-representation
>of women in all branches at all levels . . . but you can find it for
>yourself very easily by googling the title of the report.
>
>      Not exactly reeling with the shock of it all,
>
>     Melynda Huskey
>
>       ----- Original Message -----
>       From: Dale Courtney
>       Sent: Sunday, April 06, 2003 6:09 PM
>       To: 'vision2020'
>       Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
>
>       Ms. Huskey,
>
>       Would you care to provide the statistical breakdown of ethnic
>minorities in the military? Then the ethnic breakdown of those who have 
>been
>killed so far?
>
>       I think you'd be surprised, or in denial.
>
>       Best,
>       Dale
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: vision2020-admin@moscow.com
>[mailto:vision2020-admin@moscow.com] On Behalf Of Melynda Huskey
>         Sent: Saturday, 05 April, 2003 22:44
>         To: John Harrell; vision2020
>         Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
>
>
>         Dear John,
>
>         I shouldn't bother, but the information you quote below is only 
>part
>of the story.  Points-based admissions systems like Michigan's also award
>points for being the child of alumni (at historically white schools, of
>course, these points go most often to whites), for geographic diversity, 
>for
>being a first-generation college student, for coming from a 
>less-represented
>area of the state (in Michigan, that's the Upper Peninsula), for having
>specialized athletic ability, for being a veteran, and for all kinds of
>other things that provide a good mix of students.  At some 
>schools--although
>not, I believe, at Michigan--students who don't need financial aid receive
>separate consideration . . . a form of affirmative action for the wealthy.
>
>         Diversity at its finest, it seems, is a rich mix of non-whites in
>the frontlines of combat, but not in the front rows of college classrooms.
>
>         Melynda Huskey
>
>           ----- Original Message -----
>           From: John Harrell
>           Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 7:09 PM
>           To: vision2020
>           Subject: [Vision2020] Isn't This Racist?
>
>           {see below for article and URL.. I thought this article was
>interesting}
>
>           Excerpt:
>
>             The facts in the Michigan undergraduate case are easily
>understood:
>
>             On a 150-point admissions scale, an applicant gets points for
>various
>             achievements: three points for an outstanding essay, 12 points
>for a
>             perfect SAT score, 80 points for a 4.0 grade-point 
>average--and
>20 points
>             for being black, Hispanic or American Indian. White or Asian
>students with
>             lower than a 950 SAT score are automatically rejected; but if
>you are black,
>             Hispanic or Indian the rejection score is less than 850.
>
>             And if race-based preferences are constitutional in university
>admissions,
>             may there be race-based preferences in other areas--for job
>applications,
>             juror selection or the election of state legislators?
>
>
>           >From Bad to Diverse - The Supreme Court debates whether the 
>14th
>Amendment means what it
>           says
>
>           WSJ ^ | April 4, 2003 | PETE DU PONT
>           http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnists/pdupont/?id=110003289
>
>           Is racial discrimination in the selection of applicants to 
>attend
>colleges and law
>           schools acceptable--and constitutional--if its purpose is
>           to achieve diversity in the student body?
>
>           That was the question argued before the Supreme Court Tuesday. 
>The
>University of Michigan
>           says yes, the social goal of diversity is
>           paramount. The qualified students rejected because of their race
>say no, such procedures
>           violate their rights under the 14th
>           Amendment, which guarantees "equal protection of the laws," and
>Title VI of the 1964
>           Civil Rights Act, which makes discrimination
>           "on the ground of race, color, or national origin" illegal for 
>any
>institution receiving
>           federal funds.
>
>           The facts in the Michigan undergraduate case are easily
>understood: On a 150-point
>           admissions scale, an applicant gets points for
>           various achievements: three points for an outstanding essay, 12
>points for a perfect SAT
>           score, 80 points for a 4.0 grade-point
>           average--and 20 points for being black, Hispanic or American
>Indian. White or Asian
>           students with lower than a 950 SAT score are
>           automatically rejected; but if you are black, Hispanic or Indian
>the rejection score is
>           less than 850. The law-school preference program
>           is different but practices the same race-based discrimination in
>favor of certain
>           minority applicants.
>
>           There is an old law school adage: When you have the law on your
>side, argue the law; when
>           you have the facts, argue the facts; and
>           when you have neither the law nor the facts, pound on the table
>and scream like hell.
>           There was a polite bit of the latter in the
>           courtroom on Tuesday.
>
>           Maureen Mahoney, arguing the law school's case, said that of the
>"2,500 students who are
>           rejected each year, probably only 80 of
>           them . . . would have gotten an offer of admission from Michigan
>under a race-blind
>           system." That, she concluded, "is a very small
>           and diffuse burden" relative to the benefits of the racial
>preference program.
>
>           To which Justice Antonin Scalia replied: "I don't know any other
>area where we . . .
>           decide the case by saying, well, there are very
>           few people being treated unconstitutionally."
>
>           In the undergraduate case, there is a two-track admissions 
>system,
>one for selected
>           minorities, and the other for everyone else.
>           Solicitor General Theodore Olson, weighing in on the plaintiffs'
>side, noted that "the
>           University of Michigan admissions program has
>           created a separate path and a separate door for preferred
>minorities. . . . If they meet
>           basic qualifications, their path is always clear and
>           their door is always open. . . . Nonpreferred groups face 
>rigorous
>competition to get
>           through the other door."
>
>           Indeed, the university's lawyer, when pressed to identify a 
>single
>minimally qualified
>           minority member who got the 20-point racial
>           bonus and was rejected for admission, admitted, "I can't give 
>you
>one."
>
>           All of which leads to deeper questions. If there are to be
>race-based preferences, who
>           gets to pick the minorities that get the
>           preference? In the 1978 Bakke case, which involved University of
>California medical
>           students, Asian-Americans were included in the
>           preference class; at Michigan they are not. The 14th Amendment
>would not seem to give
>           state university admissions officials the
>           power to make such decisions, but that is what Michigan demands.
>
>           And if race-based preferences are constitutional in university
>admissions, may there be
>           race-based preferences in other areas--for job
>           applications, juror selection or the election of state
>legislators?
>
>           {..snip.. see URL for complete article..}
>
>           __________________________________________________
>           Do you Yahoo!?
>           Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
>           http://tax.yahoo.com
>
>           _____________________________________________________
>           List services made available by First Step Internet,
>           serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>                          http://www.fsr.net
>                     mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com
>           /////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
>http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
>http://explorer.msn.com
>
>


_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus