[WSBARP] Testamentary Trust

Tue Sep 7 12:23:44 PDT 2021

Interesting.  I do not have a “certification of trust” format.  Can you
provide me with such a document?

On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 12:05 PM Joshua McKarcher <josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
wrote:

> Jim,
>
>
>
> I have never done (or seen) a separate document purporting to restate or
> implement a testamentary trust. In my mind, the trust is created by the
> will and its terms are limited to those found in the will and applicable
> law (which I would not try to state in a document form, I guess,
> personally).
>
>
>
> I would instead create a certification of trust stating the usual terms,
> maybe the EIN obtained, maybe the probate case number in which the will is
> filed/probated, and then perhaps attaching as exhibits excerpts of the will
> that contain the relevant trust language (even including administrative
> provisions if necessary/helpful). (I might attach the entire will since
> it’s public record, but if it were preferable NOT to include some portion
> to make it “harder if not impossible” for someone to get ahold of, then an
> excerpt would be fine.)
>
>
>
> I would be reluctant personally to try to draft a new document that does
> anything more than certifies the existence of the trust and its terms (per
> the will, not “new” ones)
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/537+6th+Street+%0D%0A+Clarkston,+WA+99403?entry=gmail&source=g>
> as described above.
>
>
>
> All the best, Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua D. McKarcher
>
> McKarcher Law PLLC
>
> 537 6th Street
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/537+6th+Street+%0D%0A+Clarkston,+WA+99403?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> Clarkston, WA 99403
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/537+6th+Street+%0D%0A+Clarkston,+WA+99403?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> (509) 758-3345
>
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
>
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com
>
> www.mckarcherlaw.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Jim Doran
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 7, 2021 10:12 AM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Testamentary Trust
>
>
>
> John:
>
>
>
> We are no at the point where the testator has died and the Trust terms
> become effective.  I usually create the now Irrevocable Trust that mirrors
> the language in the Will.  But the new Irrevocable trust is a stand alone
> document.
>
>
>
> Someone has suggested that I can just use the Will with the Testamentary
> Trust as the actual Irrevocable Trust.  I am not very comfortable with
> that.  It seems to me that the new Irrevocable Trust should be its own
> document.
>
>
>
> James
>
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> James R. Doran
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 100 E. Pine Street -
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
> Suite 205
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> Bellingham, WA 98225
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
> (360)393-9506
>
> jim at doranlegal.com
>
> www.doranlegal.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2021 at 9:57 AM John J. Sullivan <sullaw at comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
> Jim:
>
>
>
> Most of my wills contain all of the language governing a testamentary
> credit shelter/bypass or QTIP/Marital trust for a surviving spouse. Same
> with minor or GST trusts for descendants or SNT’s.
>
>
>
> My pour over wills obviously “pour over” into RLTs, which can themselves
> have the same testamentary trust provisions as my wills.
>
>
>
> In the interests of minimizing documents (that sometimes sprout legs and
> walk away) I try to limit my planning to as few documents as necessary,
> unless there is a good reason otherwise.
>
>
>
> John J. Sullivan
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
>
>
> On Sep 7, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Jim Doran <jim at doranlegal.com> wrote:
>
> 
>
> I might have to learn something today.  I try not to.
>
>
>
> We all know that Testamentary Trusts are contained in a Will by the
> testator.  The terms of the Trust may be well spelled out or general,
> depending on how the Will was drafted.  I have been advised that if the
> Will spells out the terms of the Trust in good detail then that Will with
> the Testamentary Trust can be used as the Trust itself.
>
>
>
> I have always thought that the Will directs the Executor/Personal
> Representative to set up a Trust to conform with the directions in the
> Will.  As a result, my practice has been to draft a Trust with the
> provisions directed by the Will and more of the standard Trust language and
> have the Executor/Personal Representative, who is now the Grantor/Trustor,
> set up, execute and fund the newly drafted Trust.
>
>
>
> Is this how you learned Trust attorneys do it?  Or can the Will with
> Testamentary Trust language become the Trust document itself?
>
>
>
> James Doran
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> James R. Doran
>
> Attorney at Law
>
> 100 E. Pine Street -
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
> Suite 205
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
>
> Bellingham, WA 98225
> <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+%0D%0A+%0D%0A+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>
> (360)393-9506
>
> jim at doranlegal.com
>
> www.doranlegal.com
>
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-- 
James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street -  Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com
www.doranlegal.com
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