[WSBARP] WSBARP Digest, Vol 72, Issue 11
STEPHEN WHITEHOUSE
swhite8893 at aol.com
Fri Sep 11 12:31:03 PDT 2020
Any large commercial bank will not respond. There is only one way to clear the title and that is to file suit. Once you do, if the bank responds, which some don’t, all you do is convince the attorney they have plenty of remaining value and their security interest is protected, and the attorney will sign off on the decree. Before that, no one you are talking to has any authority to act. Only a property manager does and they will not assign one until you file suit.
Steve Whitehouse
Sent from my iPhone
> On Sep 11, 2020, at 12:00 PM, wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Release of bank lien on adverse possession. (Craig Gourley)
> 2. Re: Release of bank lien on adverse possession. (Doug Owens)
> 3. Re: Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
> (Gregory L. Ursich)
> 4. Re: Release of bank lien on adverse possession. (Kary Krismer)
> 5. Re: Release of bank lien on adverse possession. (Jeanne Dawes)
> 6. Re: Release of bank lien on adverse possession. (Joseph McIntosh)
> 7. Re: Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
> (Gregory L. Ursich)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 01:47:16 +0000
> From: Craig Gourley <craig at glgmail.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
> Message-ID:
> <MW3PR12MB43462D6D0B223055C4DA1559AE240 at MW3PR12MB4346.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Listmates, When a party is awarded title to property by adverse possession is the lender lien automatically stripped? We have an uncooperative lender that refuses to recon the adversely possessed parcel and we really don't want to file a quiet title over a planter box. However, this small cloud on title is preventing our clkient's sale of the property. Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> Gourley Law Group
> Snohomish Escrow
> The Exchange Connection
>
> 1002 10th Street / PO Box 1091
> Snohomish, WA 98291
>
> 360.568.5065
> 360.568.8092 fax
> Craig at glgmail.com<mailto:Craig at glgmail.com>
>
>
> Be Aware! Online banking fraud is on the rise. If you receive an email containing Wire transfer instructions call us immediately to verify the information prior to sending any funds!
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain legally privileged, confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action based on the contents of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please contact sender and delete all copies
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 03:02:01 +0000
> From: Doug Owens <dougowens at seattlerelawyer.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
> Message-ID: <A2B1C45C-4E34-475A-8394-C194E5EAE4FE at seattlerelawyer.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Craig, this is an interesting question. I have not done any research on the point but it seems to me that the principle behind adverse possession is that the open, notorious and hostile possession for the statutory term should be something that would motivate the person entitled to protect the property interest to take action to eject the trespasser. Under this principle I ask myself what could the lien holder have done to eliminate the trespass? And is the lien holder charged with knowledge of the adverse possession such that the lien holder could declare a breach of the deed of trust for the borrower?s failure to protect the title? On what basis would such knowledge be imputed? An alternative analysis is that the adverse possessor takes title ?subject to? the lien. At a minimum if the adverse possessor did not serve the lender with the summons and complaint it would seem anomalous that the lien could be invalidated by the award of title through adverse possessio!
> n. Good luck. Yours truly, Doug Owens
>
> On Sep 10, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Craig Gourley <craig at glgmail.com<mailto:craig at glgmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Listmates, When a party is awarded title to property by adverse possession is the lender lien automatically stripped? We have an uncooperative lender that refuses to recon the adversely possessed parcel and we really don?t want to file a quiet title over a planter box. However, this small cloud on title is preventing our clkient?s sale of the property. Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> Gourley Law Group
> Snohomish Escrow
> The Exchange Connection
>
> 1002 10th Street / PO Box 1091
> Snohomish, WA 98291
>
> 360.568.5065
> 360.568.8092 fax
> Craig at glgmail.com<mailto:Craig at glgmail.com>
>
>
> Be Aware! Online banking fraud is on the rise. If you receive an email containing Wire transfer instructions call us immediately to verify the information prior to sending any funds!
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain legally privileged, confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action based on the contents of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please contact sender and delete all copies
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 03:42:31 +0000
> From: "Gregory L. Ursich" <gursich at insleebest.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
> Message-ID: <E8305B0D-7307-48D4-80F4-692DEB25A7A5 at insleebest.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The Usual way I handle it is to name the lender in the quiet title action for adverse possession.
> All lenders have title insurance coverage for adverse possession and get a free lawyer to defend them. -Greg Ursich, Inslee Best
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 10, 2020, at 6:51 PM, Craig Gourley <craig at glgmail.com> wrote:
>
> ?
> Listmates, When a party is awarded title to property by adverse possession is the lender lien automatically stripped? We have an uncooperative lender that refuses to recon the adversely possessed parcel and we really don?t want to file a quiet title over a planter box. However, this small cloud on title is preventing our clkient?s sale of the property. Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> Gourley Law Group
> Snohomish Escrow
> The Exchange Connection
>
> 1002 10th Street / PO Box 1091
> Snohomish, WA 98291
>
> 360.568.5065
> 360.568.8092 fax
> Craig at glgmail.com<mailto:Craig at glgmail.com>
>
>
> Be Aware! Online banking fraud is on the rise. If you receive an email containing Wire transfer instructions call us immediately to verify the information prior to sending any funds!
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain legally privileged, confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action based on the contents of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please contact sender and delete all copies
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 06:03:33 -0700
> From: Kary Krismer <Krismer at comcast.net>
> To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
> Message-ID: <29658d12-9033-7fdc-18eb-e444a8d93065 at comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> I'm not sure Doug's issues matter based on zero research and what my
> wife claims is a questionable faulty memory.
>
> I believe a grantee under a statutory warranty deed would take subject
> to the AP claim even if the full 10 years had not passed at the time of
> transfer.? The AP claimant would merely have to wait for the remaining
> time to pass.? I don't see any reason a grantee of a DEED of trust would
> be any different.? If the claim of ownership disappears through AP I
> think it disappears as to anyone with a claim against the property, or
> at least anyone claiming through the owner against which the period of
> AP started.
>
> Alternatively, if the 10 years had passed at the time of the recording
> of the DOT then the DOT may have never attached to the portion.? As I
> recall it's the date of the expiration of 10 years that matters, not the
> date of the court ruling that the 10 years passed.
>
> As to Greg's point about title insurance, if the bank has coverage the
> bank would have little motivation to act and so probably won't act.? But
> does a lender's policy cover AP, or does it matter when the AP claim 10
> year period expired?? I'm pretty sure owner's policies wouldn't cover an
> owner when the entire period of AP occurred after they took title.
>
> Kary L. Krismer
> 206 723-2148
>
>> On 9/10/2020 8:02 PM, Doug Owens wrote:
>> Dear Craig, this is an interesting question. ?I have not done any
>> research on the point but it seems to me that the principle behind
>> adverse possession is that the open, notorious and hostile possession
>> for the statutory term should be something that would motivate the
>> person entitled to protect the property interest to take action to
>> eject the trespasser. ?Under this principle I ask myself what could
>> the lien holder have done to eliminate the trespass? ?And is the lien
>> holder charged with knowledge of the adverse possession such that the
>> lien holder could declare a breach of the deed of trust for the
>> borrower?s failure to protect the title? ?On what basis would such
>> knowledge be imputed? ?An alternative analysis is that the adverse
>> possessor takes title ?subject to? the lien. ?At a minimum if the
>> adverse possessor did not serve the lender with the summons and
>> complaint it would seem anomalous that the lien could be invalidated
>> by the award of title through adverse possession. ?Good luck. ?Yours
>> truly, Doug Owens
>>
>>> On Sep 10, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Craig Gourley <craig at glgmail.com
>>> <mailto:craig at glgmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Listmates,? When a party is awarded title to property by adverse
>>> possession is the lender lien automatically stripped?? We have an
>>> uncooperative lender that refuses to recon the adversely possessed
>>> parcel and we really don?t want to file a quiet title over a planter
>>> box. However, this small cloud on title is preventing our clkient?s
>>> sale of the property.? Thoughts?
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> **
>>> *Gourley Law Group*
>>> *Snohomish Escrow*
>>> *The Exchange Connection*
>>> **
>>> 1002 10^th Street / PO Box 1091
>>> Snohomish, WA 98291
>>> 360.568.5065
>>> 360.568.8092 fax
>>> _Craig at glgmail.com <mailto:Craig at glgmail.com>_
>>> **
>>> Be Aware! Online banking fraud is on the rise. If you receive an
>>> email containing*Wire transfer instructions*call us immediately to
>>> verify the information prior to sending any funds!
>>> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain
>>> legally privileged, confidential information belonging to the sender.
>>> The information is intended only for the use of the individual or
>>> entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are
>>> hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking
>>> any action based on the contents of this electronic mail is strictly
>>> prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error,
>>> please contact sender and delete all copies
>>> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
>>> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
>>> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
>>> others.***
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> WSBARP mailing list
>>> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>>> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>>
>>
>> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> WSBARP mailing list
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>> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 16:36:32 +0000
> From: Jeanne Dawes <jjdawes at goregrewe.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
> Message-ID:
> <MWHPR05MB3581C2EF5CCF2490774572ABAC240 at MWHPR05MB3581.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> If the AP portion of the property was aggregated to the possessors parcel, would the lender even be able to foreclose on it because the AP portion alone is not a legal parcel of land? Way back I recall lenders who were having difficulty foreclosing on a portion of land that had been aggregated to a large piece, but the encumbrance only secured a portion of it.
>
> Jeanne
>
> Jeanne J. Dawes
> Attorney at Law
> Gore & Grewe, P.S.
> 103 E. Indiana Avenue, Suite A
> Spokane, WA 99207-2317
> Voice: 509-326-7500
> Fax: 509-326-7503
> jjdawes at goregrewe.com<mailto:jjdawes at goregrewe.com>
>
> [cid:image001.jpg at 01D6881F.08482D80]
> INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL.
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com On Behalf Of Kary Krismer
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 6:04 AM
> To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
>
>
> I'm not sure Doug's issues matter based on zero research and what my wife claims is a questionable faulty memory.
>
> I believe a grantee under a statutory warranty deed would take subject to the AP claim even if the full 10 years had not passed at the time of transfer. The AP claimant would merely have to wait for the remaining time to pass. I don't see any reason a grantee of a DEED of trust would be any different. If the claim of ownership disappears through AP I think it disappears as to anyone with a claim against the property, or at least anyone claiming through the owner against which the period of AP started.
>
> Alternatively, if the 10 years had passed at the time of the recording of the DOT then the DOT may have never attached to the portion. As I recall it's the date of the expiration of 10 years that matters, not the date of the court ruling that the 10 years passed.
>
> As to Greg's point about title insurance, if the bank has coverage the bank would have little motivation to act and so probably won't act. But does a lender's policy cover AP, or does it matter when the AP claim 10 year period expired? I'm pretty sure owner's policies wouldn't cover an owner when the entire period of AP occurred after they took title.
>
> Kary L. Krismer
>
> 206 723-2148
> On 9/10/2020 8:02 PM, Doug Owens wrote:
> Dear Craig, this is an interesting question. I have not done any research on the point but it seems to me that the principle behind adverse possession is that the open, notorious and hostile possession for the statutory term should be something that would motivate the person entitled to protect the property interest to take action to eject the trespasser. Under this principle I ask myself what could the lien holder have done to eliminate the trespass? And is the lien holder charged with knowledge of the adverse possession such that the lien holder could declare a breach of the deed of trust for the borrower?s failure to protect the title? On what basis would such knowledge be imputed? An alternative analysis is that the adverse possessor takes title ?subject to? the lien. At a minimum if the adverse possessor did not serve the lender with the summons and complaint it would seem anomalous that the lien could be invalidated by the award of title through adverse possessio!
> n. Good luck. Yours truly, Doug Owens
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Craig Gourley <craig at glgmail.com<mailto:craig at glgmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Listmates, When a party is awarded title to property by adverse possession is the lender lien automatically stripped? We have an uncooperative lender that refuses to recon the adversely possessed parcel and we really don?t want to file a quiet title over a planter box. However, this small cloud on title is preventing our clkient?s sale of the property. Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> Gourley Law Group
> Snohomish Escrow
> The Exchange Connection
>
> 1002 10th Street / PO Box 1091
> Snohomish, WA 98291
>
> 360.568.5065
> 360.568.8092 fax
> Craig at glgmail.com<mailto:Craig at glgmail.com>
>
>
> Be Aware! Online banking fraud is on the rise. If you receive an email containing Wire transfer instructions call us immediately to verify the information prior to sending any funds!
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain legally privileged, confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action based on the contents of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please contact sender and delete all copies
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> WSBARP mailing list
>
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 16:54:28 +0000
> From: Joseph McIntosh <jmcintosh at McCarthyHolthus.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
> Message-ID:
> <A2C62F4295112F44A50E3A4A2026B87B02C33C5858 at IDS-MB.domain.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Was the lien given before the adverse possession? If so, the encumbered interest should be free and clear of the AP claim, and could be auctioned to a buyer at foreclosure free and clear. However, lenders typically want to conform their lien to match current property lines, which makes properties free of title uncertainties and more marketable, and that may be one way to sell the voluntary partial release.
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Craig Gourley
> Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2020 6:54 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
>
> Listmates, When a party is awarded title to property by adverse possession is the lender lien automatically stripped? We have an uncooperative lender that refuses to recon the adversely possessed parcel and we really don't want to file a quiet title over a planter box. However, this small cloud on title is preventing our clkient's sale of the property. Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> Gourley Law Group
> Snohomish Escrow
> The Exchange Connection
>
> 1002 10th Street / PO Box 1091
> Snohomish, WA 98291
>
> 360.568.5065
> 360.568.8092 fax
> Craig at glgmail.com<mailto:Craig at glgmail.com>
>
>
> Be Aware! Online banking fraud is on the rise. If you receive an email containing Wire transfer instructions call us immediately to verify the information prior to sending any funds!
>
> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This electronic mail transmission may contain legally privileged, confidential information belonging to the sender. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or taking any action based on the contents of this electronic mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, please contact sender and delete all copies
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2020 17:59:36 +0000
> From: "Gregory L. Ursich" <gursich at insleebest.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
> Message-ID:
> <MWHPR17MB1119F2C0DE64C3056A847EB3DC240 at MWHPR17MB1119.namprd17.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> All Lender?s title policies have extended coverage and therefore insurance for AP claims. By suing the lender in the quiet title, they will instantly tender to the title insurer and will get appointed a very reasonable attorney, such as myself, to have the lender stipulate to adverse possession. -Greg
>
> [cid:image003.jpg at 01D6882A.92B137E0]
> Gregory L. Ursich
> Shareholder
> Skyline Tower, Suite 1500 | 10900 NE 4th Street | Bellevue, WA 98004
> P: 425.450.4258 | F: 425.635.7720
> vCard<http://www.insleebest.com/uploads/vcards/gursich.vcf> | website<http://www.insleebest.com/> | gursich at insleebest.com<mailto:gursich at insleebest.com>
>
> This electronic mail transmission is privileged and confidential and is intended only for the review of the party to whom it is addressed. If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately return it to the sender. Unintended transmission shall not constitute waiver of the attorney-client or any other privilege.
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Kary Krismer
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 6:04 AM
> To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Release of bank lien on adverse possession.
>
>
> I'm not sure Doug's issues matter based on zero research and what my wife claims is a questionable faulty memory.
>
> I believe a grantee under a statutory warranty deed would take subject to the AP claim even if the full 10 years had not passed at the time of transfer. The AP claimant would merely have to wait for the remaining time to pass. I don't see any reason a grantee of a DEED of trust would be any different. If the claim of ownership disappears through AP I think it disappears as to anyone with a claim against the property, or at least anyone claiming through the owner against which the period of AP started.
>
> Alternatively, if the 10 years had passed at the time of the recording of the DOT then the DOT may have never attached to the portion. As I recall it's the date of the expiration of 10 years that matters, not the date of the court ruling that the 10 years passed.
>
> As to Greg's point about title insurance, if the bank has coverage the bank would have little motivation to act and so probably won't act. But does a lender's policy cover AP, or does it matter when the AP claim 10 year period expired? I'm pretty sure owner's policies wouldn't cover an owner when the entire period of AP occurred after they took title.
>
> Kary L. Krismer
>
> 206 723-2148
> On 9/10/2020 8:02 PM, Doug Owens wrote:
> Dear Craig, this is an interesting question. I have not done any research on the point but it seems to me that the principle behind adverse possession is that the open, notorious and hostile possession for the statutory term should be something that would motivate the person entitled to protect the property interest to take action to eject the trespasser. Under this principle I ask myself what could the lien holder have done to eliminate the trespass? And is the lien holder charged with knowledge of the adverse possession such that the lien holder could declare a breach of the deed of trust for the borrower?s failure to protect the title? On what basis would such knowledge be imputed? An alternative analysis is that the adverse possessor takes title ?subject to? the lien. At a minimum if the adverse possessor did not serve the lender with the summons and complaint it would seem anomalous that the lien could be invalidated by the award of title through adverse possessio!
> n. Good luck. Yours truly, Doug Owens
>
>
> On Sep 10, 2020, at 6:47 PM, Craig Gourley <craig at glgmail.com<mailto:craig at glgmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Listmates, When a party is awarded title to property by adverse possession is the lender lien automatically stripped? We have an uncooperative lender that refuses to recon the adversely possessed parcel and we really don?t want to file a quiet title over a planter box. However, this small cloud on title is preventing our clkient?s sale of the property. Thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> Gourley Law Group
> Snohomish Escrow
> The Exchange Connection
>
> 1002 10th Street / PO Box 1091
> Snohomish, WA 98291
>
> 360.568.5065
> 360.568.8092 fax
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> Be Aware! Online banking fraud is on the rise. If you receive an email containing Wire transfer instructions call us immediately to verify the information prior to sending any funds!
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> End of WSBARP Digest, Vol 72, Issue 11
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