[WSBARP] Ejectment Action

[Suzanne Lieberman]

Thank you both.

Sincerely,

Suzanne Lieberman
CMS Law Firm LLC <http://cmslawfirm.com/>
*811 Kirkland Ave. Suite 201 *(please note new address!)
Kirkland, WA 98033
206.383.6484 (Cell Phone)
206.659.1512 (Main Office)


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avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer under the Internal
Revenue Code; or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to another
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On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 12:50 PM Kaitlyn Jackson <kaitlyn at dimensionlaw.com>
wrote:

> I think it's also worth noting that the answer to these questions also
> involves consideration of the city where the property is located. If the
> city has adopted more stringent notice requirements for certain termination
> causes, then those local laws may need to be followed as well. For example,
> look to the cities of Seattle, Federal Way, Burien, and Tacoma's housing
> laws in conjunction with Proclamation requirements. If the local law
> requires a 90 days notice or 120 days notice to terminate for a
> particular reason,  that may have an impact on your client's options.
>
> Kaitlyn
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 9:53 AM Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
> wrote:
>
>> The moratorium does include the situation where a lease has expired and
>> the tenant refuses to leave, BUT one of the few exceptions is the owner
>> intending to move back in *as their primary residence*, and so long as
>> owner gives 60 days' notice.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the first section quoted below, it says " This prohibition applies to
>> tenancies or other housing arrangements that have expired or that will
>> expire during the effective period of this Proclamation."
>>
>>
>>
>> In the second section: "Property owners...are prohibited from seeking or
>> enforcing, or threatening to seek or enforce, judicial eviction orders
>> involving any dwelling or parcel of land occupied as a dwelling, unless
>> the...property owner...shows that at least 60 days’ written notice were
>> provided of intent to (i) personally occupy the premises as a primary
>> residence...."
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric C. Nelsen
>>
>> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
>>
>> 1417 31st Ave South
>>
>> Seattle WA 98144-3909
>>
>> 206-625-0092
>>
>> eric at sayrelawoffices.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Covid-19 Update - *All attorneys are working remotely during regular
>> business hours and are available via email and by phone; please call the
>> Seattle office. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate
>> planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case
>> basis; please call the Seattle office.
>>
>>
>>
>> MAIL AND DELIVERIES can be received at the Seattle office. For any other
>> needed arrangements, please call the Seattle office.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
>> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Suzanne Lieberman
>> *Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 6:05 AM
>> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Ejectment Action
>>
>>
>>
>> Wow - interesting thread. For a fixed-term one-year lease (landlords
>> simply want to move back in once lease is up August 31), where tenant has
>> not been paying for several months, the moratorium would not apply,
>> correct? What are landlords' rights/best courses of action if tenant
>> refuses to leave?
>>
>>
>>
>> Suzanne Lieberman
>>
>> CMS Law Firm LLC <http://cmslawfirm.com/>
>>
>> *811 Kirkland Ave. Suite 201 *(please note new address!)
>>
>> Kirkland, WA 98033
>>
>> 206.383.6484 (Cell Phone)
>>
>> 206.659.1512 (Main Office)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Legal stuff I have to put in... *To ensure compliance with Treasury
>> Department and IRS regulations, we inform you that, unless expressly
>> indicated otherwise, any federal tax advice contained in this communication
>> (including any attachments) is not intended or written by CMS Law Firm LLC
>> to be used, and cannot be used by the taxpayer, for the purpose of: (i)
>> avoiding penalties that may be imposed on the taxpayer under the Internal
>> Revenue Code; or (ii) promoting, marketing, or recommending to another
>> party any transaction or matter addressed herein (or any attachments).*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 3:38 PM Kaitlyn Jackson <kaitlyn at dimensionlaw.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Timothy -
>>
>>
>>
>> I had the exact thing happen to me. My client is still stuck even though
>> the tenant was eventually arrested FOR MURDER and is now in jail. His
>> girlfriend, however, who had been previously evicted by my client from
>> another unit - moved in without my client's knowledge and now the
>> Proclamation protects her. Completely nuts.
>>
>>
>>
>> I feel like a Zoom happy hour to swap war stories resulting from the
>> 20-19 series would be interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kaitlyn
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 2:11 PM Timothy Lehr <timothy at stileslaw.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Understood. In my handful of cases it’s not worth the fight, but I’ve
>> been trying to wrap my mind around how all the pieces work together.
>>
>>
>>
>> For the sake of venting, I can’t help but feel confused on who has what
>> authority when it comes to a prosecutor effectively “prohibiting” the
>> sheriff’s office from executing a signed order from a Judge. I ran into
>> that when the moratorium first began. We went though the eviction process
>> (at the beginning of March before any restrictions were in place) and
>> eventually received a signed writ of restitution which was delivered to the
>> sheriff’s office for execution, only to have the moratorium come into place
>> the *following* day. I received a call the following morning from the
>> Sheriff’s office stating that the county prosecutor would not allow
>> execution of the writ. I was baffled, and my client paid in time and money
>> for an toothless order.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyway, thanks everyone for your comments. Much appreciated.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Timothy C. Lehr*
>>
>> Attorney at Law
>>
>> Stiles Law Inc., P.S.
>>
>>
>>
>> p:   360.855.0131
>>
>> e:   timothy at stileslaw.com
>>
>> w:  www.stileslaw.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *NOTICE*: The information contained in this email is proprietary and/or
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>> manner; (iii) notify the sender immediately. Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Eric Lanza <eric at buzzardlaw.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 1:41 PM
>> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Ejectment Action
>>
>>
>>
>> The state’s position is that ejectments are covered under the
>> proclamation. I’ve had lengthy arguments (err…discussions) with the AG on
>> this. The proclamation is, in my mind, woefully crafted, but I’ll save my
>> personal feelings on the matter for another forum.
>>
>>
>>
>> The AG said they had no issue with a complaint to “Quiet Title” --- as
>> that is just seeking a judicial determination of ownership of real
>> property. However, if you make the mistake of asking for a “Writ of
>> Ejectment” in your complaint they are going to demand compliance with the
>> moratorium provisions. Nevermind the fact that ejectment and quiet title
>> are both governed by RCW 7.28 and are inextricably linked---the AG’s
>> position seemed to differentiate the two.
>>
>>
>>
>> They aren’t too keen on you moving for a judicial determination re: quiet
>> title, then waiting for the moratorium to end to apply for a writ of
>> ejectment. If your complaint asks for a writ of ejectment, you can’t take
>> any action in the case (you cant even present a motion for order of
>> default, according to the AAG I was dealing with).
>>
>>
>>
>> In short, you may be able to get away with a quiet title action as long
>> as you don’t mention the word ejectment in your pleadings. However,
>> fighting with the AG is likely futile and not worth the effort---I ended up
>> serving the 60 day notice as requested and am playing the waiting game like
>> everyone else.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric J. Lanza, J.D.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
>> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Kaitlyn Jackson
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 1:31 PM
>> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Ejectment Action
>>
>>
>>
>> Exactly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Not only would this fall under the broad protections of 20-19.2, but even
>> IF you can convince a Commissioner to sign the order, the Sheriff’s Office
>> will have their own prosecutor review the Commissioner’s order and do their
>> own determination of whether or not it violates 20-19.2 or other emergency
>> Order. If the Sheriff’s office vis-a-vis their own prosecutor decides they
>> don’t like it, they won’t carry the order out.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kaitlyn
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2020, at 1:17 PM, Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Yeah, what he said (but much more eloquently.)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <image002.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
>> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Eric Nelsen
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 1:06 PM
>> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Ejectment Action
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think so. I think ejectment is barred as well. The Governor's
>> proclamation does refer to those statutes, but the operative language is
>> much, much broader:
>>
>>
>>
>> WHEREAS, it is critical to protect *tenants and residents of traditional
>> dwellings* from homelessness, as well as those who have *lawfully
>> occupied or resided in less traditional dwelling situations for 14 days or
>> more, whether or not documented in a lease, including but not limited to
>> roommates who share a home; long-term care facilities; transient housing in
>> hotels and motels; “Airbnbs”; motor homes; RVs; and camping areas*;
>>
>>
>>
>> •             Landlords, property owners, and property managers are
>> prohibited from serving or enforcing, or threatening to serve or enforce,
>> any notice requiring *a resident to vacate any dwelling or parcel of
>> land occupied as a dwelling*, including but not limited to an eviction
>> notice, notice to pay or vacate, notice of unlawful detainer, notice of
>> termination of rental, or notice to comply or vacate. This prohibition
>> applies to tenancies or other housing arrangements that have expired or
>> that will expire during the effective period of this Proclamation. This
>> prohibition applies unless the landlord, property owner, or property
>> manager (a) attaches an affidavit attesting that the action is necessary to
>> respond to a significant and immediate risk to the health, safety, or
>> property of others created by the resident; or (b) provides at least 60
>> days’ written notice of intent to (i) personally occupy the premises as a
>> primary residence, or (ii) sell the property.
>>
>> •             Landlords, property owners, and property managers are
>> prohibited from seeking or enforcing, or threatening to seek or enforce,
>> judicial eviction orders *involving any dwelling or parcel of land
>> occupied as a dwelling*, unless the landlord, property owner, or
>> property manager (a) attaches an affidavit attesting that the action is
>> necessary to respond to a significant and immediate risk to the health,
>> safety, or property of others created by the resident; or (b) shows that at
>> least 60 days’ written notice were provided of intent to (i) personally
>> occupy the premises as a primary residence, or (ii) sell the property.
>>
>> •             Local law enforcement are prohibited from serving,
>> threatening to serve, or otherwise acting on eviction orders *affecting
>> any dwelling or parcel of land occupied as a dwelling*, unless...
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric C. Nelsen
>>
>> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
>>
>> 1417 31st Ave South
>>
>> Seattle WA 98144-3909
>>
>> 206-625-0092
>>
>> eric at sayrelawoffices.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *Covid-19 Update - *All attorneys are working remotely during regular
>> business hours and are available via email and by phone; please call the
>> Seattle office. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate
>> planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case
>> basis; please call the Seattle office.
>>
>>
>>
>> MAIL AND DELIVERIES can be received at the Seattle office. For any other
>> needed arrangements, please call the Seattle office.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
>> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Lehr
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 12:46 PM
>> *To:* 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Ejectment Action
>>
>>
>>
>> The Governor’s moratorium and our local superior court orders
>> specifically reference RCW 59.12 and RCW 59.18 when setting out the
>> restrictions. They also repeatedly reference “Evictions” and not ejectments
>> and make no mention to RCW 7.28.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would hope that’s enough to keep this issue outside of the orders…but
>> maybe not?
>>
>>
>>
>> *Timothy C. Lehr*
>>
>> Attorney at Law
>>
>> Stiles Law Inc., P.S.
>>
>>
>>
>> p:   360.855.0131
>>
>> e:   timothy at stileslaw.com
>>
>> w:  www.stileslaw.com
>> <https://eur02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.stileslaw.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7C533ef8b56aa54750de9808d8148cd17f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637281942333317485&sdata=E34thcFASTGF%2Bpamud0CtkxpsxHN4l5xEqHsSWD%2Fq%2Bo%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> *NOTICE*: The information contained in this email is proprietary and/or
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>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bryce Dille <Bryce at dillelaw.com>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 11:32 AM
>> *To:* 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Ejectment Action
>>
>>
>>
>> What I did in a squatter situation was send the 60 days notice of sale of
>> property which does allow for evictions and was true as we are selling the
>> property out of an estate.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
>> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Jeanne Dawes
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 11:18 AM
>> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Ejectment Action
>>
>>
>>
>> You might consider contacting APS for financial exploitation if the
>> person is stealing from PC.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Jeanne*
>>
>>
>>
>> *Jeanne J.* *Dawes*
>>
>> Attorney at Law
>>
>> Gore & Grewe, P.S.
>>
>> 103 E. Indiana Avenue, Suite A
>>
>> Spokane, WA 99207-2317
>>
>> Voice:  509-326-7500
>>
>> Fax:      509-326-7503
>>
>> jjdawes at goregrewe.com
>>
>>
>>
>> <image006.jpg>
>>
>> INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND
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>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com *On Behalf Of *Kaitlyn Jackson
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 10:42 AM
>> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Ejectment Action
>>
>>
>>
>> The moratorium 20-19.2 covers this situation. His occupancy cannot be
>> terminated unless you can find an exception under the moratorium.
>>
>>
>>
>> Kaitlyn
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 19, 2020 at 10:16 AM Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Possible defense?  Yeah, my local friendly sheriff refused to execute on
>> a signed Writ of Replevin issued by the court because, as in the words of
>> the county prosecutor, “it smells like an eviction” because you are kicking
>> a person out of their home during the moratorium.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <image007.jpg>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
>> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Timothy Lehr
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 19, 2020 9:56 AM
>> *To:* wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com
>> *Subject:* [WSBARP] Ejectment Action
>>
>>
>>
>> All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a PC with a pretty straightforward cause for an ejectment action,
>> as I see it. “ Occupant” was down on his luck and allowed to live in a
>> mobile home on PC’s property about two years ago. No rent was paid or asked
>> for. PC pays all utilities on the mobile. Occupant has now moved two
>> additional people in the mobile without approval. Occupant is becoming
>> aggressive and possibly has bi-polar disorder. He’s had multiple run-ins
>> with law enforcement and has a pretty long rap sheet. PCs have been taken
>> advantage of for some time (occupant has stolen multiple tools and other
>> items of PCs and pawned them) , are retired in their 80s and just want
>> occupants removed from property.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe this falls under ejectment as opposed to eviction as there is
>> no LL-T relationship. Does anyone have basic pleadings for an ejectment
>> action that they would be willing to share and/or any practical advice on
>> what to watch out for (possible defenses) for such an action? I regularly
>> represent landlords in eviction proceedings, but have yet to dive into an
>> ejectment.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you!
>>
>>
>>
>> *Timothy C. Lehr*
>>
>> Attorney at Law
>>
>> Stiles Law Inc., P.S.
>>
>>
>>
>> p:   360.855.0131
>>
>> e:   timothy at stileslaw.com
>>
>> w:  www.stileslaw.com
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>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>> Kaitlyn R. Jackson | Attorney| DIMENSION LAW GROUP PLLC
>> 130 Andover Park East, Suite 300 | Tukwila, WA 98188
>>
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>> and electronic copies. Any settlement offer contained herein is made
>> pursuant to Washington ER 408, and without admitting fault or liability on
>> the part of this firm’s client(s) or its agents.  IRS CIRCULAR 230
>> DISCLAIMER:  To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS,
>> I inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication
>> (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and
>> cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
>> Internal Revenue Code; or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
>> another party any transaction or tax-related matter addressed herein.
>>
>> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
>> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
>> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
>> others.***
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> WSBARP mailing list
>> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
>> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>> Kaitlyn R. Jackson | Attorney| DIMENSION LAW GROUP PLLC
>> 130 Andover Park East, Suite 300 | Tukwila, WA 98188
>>
>> t: *206.973.3500 *| f: *206.577.5090*| e: *kaitlyn at dimensionlaw.com|
>> <kaitlyn at dimensionlaw.com%7C>* www.dimensionlaw.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Covid-19 Update - Dimension Law Group remains available to serve our
>> clients and the public during this time, subject to the orders and
>> recommendations of government authority.
>>
>> All attorneys and staff are working remotely regular business hours and
>> are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. We
>> will continue to advise and support our clients throughout this health
>> emergency.
>>
>>
>> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL:  This e-mail (including any attachments) is
>> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may
>> contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended
>> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the
>> intended recipient, you are notified that any review, dissemination,
>> distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. Attempts to intercept
>> this message are in violation of 18 USC 2511(1) of the Electronic
>> Communications Privacy Act, which subjects the interceptor to fines,
>> imprisonment and/or civil damages. If you have received this e-mail in
>> error, please immediately notify us by e-mail, facsimile, or telephone;
>> return the e-mail to us at the e-mail address below; and destroy all paper
>> and electronic copies. Any settlement offer contained herein is made
>> pursuant to Washington ER 408, and without admitting fault or liability on
>> the part of this firm’s client(s) or its agents.  IRS CIRCULAR 230
>> DISCLAIMER:  To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS,
>> I inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication
>> (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and
>> cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
>> Internal Revenue Code; or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
>> another party any transaction or tax-related matter addressed herein.
>> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
>> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
>> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
>> others.***
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> WSBARP mailing list
>> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
>> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>>
>> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
>> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
>> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
>> others.***
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> WSBARP mailing list
>> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
>> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
>
>
> --
> Thank you,
>
> Kaitlyn R. Jackson | Attorney| DIMENSION LAW GROUP PLLC
> 130 Andover Park East, Suite 300 | Tukwila, WA 98188
> t: *206.973.3500 *| f: *206.577.5090*| e: *kaitlyn at dimensionlaw.com*|
> www.dimensionlaw.com
>
> Covid-19 Update - Dimension Law Group remains available to serve our
> clients and the public during this time, subject to the orders and
> recommendations of government authority.
>
> All attorneys and staff are working remotely regular business hours and
> are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. We
> will continue to advise and support our clients throughout this health
> emergency.
>
> PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL:  This e-mail (including any attachments) is
> intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above and may
> contain privileged or confidential information. If you are not the intended
> recipient, or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the
> intended recipient, you are notified that any review, dissemination,
> distribution or copying of this e-mail is prohibited. Attempts to intercept
> this message are in violation of 18 USC 2511(1) of the Electronic
> Communications Privacy Act, which subjects the interceptor to fines,
> imprisonment and/or civil damages. If you have received this e-mail in
> error, please immediately notify us by e-mail, facsimile, or telephone;
> return the e-mail to us at the e-mail address below; and destroy all paper
> and electronic copies. Any settlement offer contained herein is made
> pursuant to Washington ER 408, and without admitting fault or liability on
> the part of this firm’s client(s) or its agents.  IRS CIRCULAR 230
> DISCLAIMER:  To ensure compliance with requirements imposed by the IRS, I
> inform you that any U.S. tax advice contained in this communication
> (including any attachments) is not intended or written to be used, and
> cannot be used, for the purpose of (i) avoiding penalties under the
> Internal Revenue Code; or (ii) promoting, marketing or recommending to
> another party any transaction or tax-related matter addressed herein.
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
> others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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