[WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Mon Dec 21 15:46:24 PST 2020

>From a summary of the COVID Relief and omnibus package, prepared by the Democratic staff of the House Committee on Financial Services; final vote on the bill tonite, maybe tomorrow:

Title V – Banking 

Subtitle A — Emergency Rental Assistance 

Sec. 501. Emergency Rental Assistance. Section 5201 appropriates $25 billion through Treasury to provide to state and local government entities, including $400 million for U.S. territories and $800 million for Native Americans, Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians (with the District of Columbia treated as a state). Funds would be required to be allocated to state and local governments (“grantees”) within 30 days of enactment. Eligible households are defined as renter households who: (1) have a household income not more than 80 percent of AMI; (2) have one or more household members who can demonstrate a risk of experiencing homelessness or housing instability; and (3) have one or more household members who qualify for unemployment benefits or experienced financial hardship due, directly or indirectly, to the pandemic. Assistance would be prioritized for renter households whose incomes do not exceed 50 percent of AMI as well as renter households who are currently unemployed and have been unemployed for 90 or more days. Financial assistance provided under this section is non-taxable for households receiving such assistance. 

Sec. 502. Eviction Moratorium. This section extends the CDC eviction moratorium until January 31, 2021

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2020 8:09 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

In my years as Mayor of my home town (Twisp) I found that if a person is very clear and determined to get what his/her constituents need, there is always a way to get it.  Who is going to do the work with drive, passion and determination are the only questions.

We have an outline for what is needed.  Some of the administrative structure is already in place, eg Section 8, and the money is there.  Who is going to make this happen?

Jim Doran

PS.  Someone send this to Governor Inslee.  I don't have a direct line.

James R. Doran

Attorney at Law

100 E. Pine Street -  Suite 205

Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506

jim at doranlegal.com <mailto:jim at doranlegal.com> 

www.doranlegal.com <http://www.doranlegal.com> 

On Sun, Dec 20, 2020 at 7:51 AM <scott at scottgthomaslaw.com <mailto:scott at scottgthomaslaw.com> > wrote:

Perhaps the bigger question is what is squirreled away in the new stimulus bill?  At one point there was $25B to state and local governments to pay for rent and utilities.  If that made it into the final bill, asking the legislature to double Washington’s share to get landlords and tenants past the next 6 months would seem to be in the interest of both.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2020 6:34 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Who is going to pitch this  To the the Governor?

On Sat, Dec 19, 2020 at 8:07 PM <scott at scottgthomaslaw.com <mailto:scott at scottgthomaslaw.com> > wrote:

With respect, I point out that Section 8 housing is known, accepted, and there is a lot of infrastructure already in place.  Local service agencies are familiar with it, and able to provide tenants with assistance.  A temporary expansion would be quick and relatively easy.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2020 2:48 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Jim, I think that could be a great solution. Personally I would advocate for putting most of the administrative burden on the landlord, to apply for relief and work with the tenant to get the tenant’s cooperation in providing necessary information to provide to the state. The tenant’s incentive would be that, if they cooperate with the landlord, they get protection from eviction; otherwise not. (And eviction would be contingent on showing that landlord made necessary efforts to let tenant know about the options and gave them reasonable opportunity to take advantage of the protection.)

I think landlords are better situated than tenants in financial distress, in terms of resources and time, to deal with the bureaucratic details. Too many benefit programs fail because they are too complicated or require too much sustained effort from the intended beneficiary, a person who is in an unstable and precarious position. Also, there are fewer landlords than tenants, which would reduce the state’s administrative burden because the bigger landlords would, through repetition, get proficient at providing exactly the right information in a format that makes it easier for the state to confirm. Plus, the payments would go to the landlord so the landlord has to be in touch with the state anyway.

I can imagine some privacy issues cropping up, for tenants giving info to landlords, so it might take some tweaking. And perhaps tenants could apply themselves if they wished, if the landlord isn’t cooperative.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen

Sayre Law Offices, PLLC

1417 31st Ave South <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1417+31st+Ave+South+Seattle+WA+98144-3909?entry=gmail&source=g> 

Seattle WA 98144-3909 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1417+31st+Ave+South+Seattle+WA+98144-3909?entry=gmail&source=g> 

206-625-0092

 <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> eric at sayrelawoffices.com

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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2020 1:09 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Wow.  what a brilliant string of thoughts.  One of you, buried down the string quite a ways, articulated what I would call the best analysis.  I would like to add just a bit.

The brilliant one said, and I am paraphrasing, that one of the purposes of the federal government in times like these is to step up to help.  In this case that would have (and probably still could) meant that a landlord - tenant relief bill be adopted until the end of the pandemic.  If a tenant could show that he/she was financially disadvantaged because of the Covid and filled out the paperwork, then the tenant's rent would be paid directly to the landlord.  If the tenant did not qualify or simply did not take the time and effort to fill out the forms and go to the interview, then the regular rules of unlawful detainer would apply.  Pretty simple.  There are details, of course.  

Yes, this would create another layer of bureaucracy at the state level and would take some time to set up.  An interim forbearance could be allowed.  However, this landlord - tenant relief bill is better than all the terrible predictions that have been brought up in this email discussion.  I believe the harm will be very substantial if a process like this is not developed and implemented.  

Why wasn't it developed and implemented?  (Or, where does the real fault lie?)  If the federal government had addressed the Covid pandemic in a professional way, the need for the landlord - tenant relief bill would have been vetted and most likely funded by a significant fund to the individual states for the purposes stated.  But, as we know, the President didn't step up.  The real core of this problem is failed leadership at the top.

I appreciate all of the comments, even the two from Voltaire.  But I would like whoever it was who had this brilliant idea to step forward and be recognized.  It is the only real solution to this situation.  I have said many times, "I may not ever have a creative idea, but I sure do recognize one when I hear it."

Thank you all for the focus on this.  Are we going to try to outlast the Covid....for another 8 months... or try to get something like this from the Biden Administration?  That's the question now.

James Doran

James R. Doran

Attorney at Law

100 E. Pine Street - <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g>   Suite 205 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g> 

Bellingham, WA 98225 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/E.+Pine+Street+-+Suite+205+Bellingham,+WA+98225?entry=gmail&source=g> 
(360)393-9506

jim at doranlegal.com <mailto:jim at doranlegal.com> 

www.doranlegal.com <http://www.doranlegal.com> 

On Fri, Dec 18, 2020 at 11:39 AM Lenard Wittlake <lwlaw at my180.net <mailto:lwlaw at my180.net> > wrote:

Mr. Long is correct, imho.  He is not talking about removing landlords from their homes.  He is talking about the government taking control of dwellings away from the landlord owners.  That is expropriation of dwellings, even if temporarily.

As for mob rule, that was a concern of the founders (we were pretty much started by disfavored minorities that fled slaughter in other places) and that is relevant in analyzing the use of emergency powers which has stripped away all of the protections mentioned.  The pandemic is the reason for invoking emergency powers.  The problem under discussion is the way the powers are used, who benefits and who pays. So I have an opinion about why a politician would choose to lay the burden on landlords instead of broader society.  At least these days no one gets killed over differences of opinion …. oh, wait..

There are valid points and concerns on the right and the left.  But our society seems to not care about coming to a consensus that works for more than a mere majority (I live in OR where Portland can outvote the rest of the state).  But our system has worked better than most others, until emergency powers are used based on politics instead of rational analysis and problem solving.  That Canadian idea someone mentioned makes sense to me.

Lenard L Wittlake, PLLC

Attorney & Counselor at Law

22 East Poplar Street, Suite 202 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/22+East+Poplar+Street,+Suite+202?entry=gmail&source=g> 

P.O. Box 1233

Walla Walla, WA 99362

(509) 529-1529 voice

(509) 850-3515 fax

www.lwattorney.com <http://www.lwattorney.com> 

Lenard at wittlakelaw.com <mailto:Lenard at wittlakelaw.com> 

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From:  <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto: <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
Sent: Friday, December 18, 2020 10:08 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Life tenure for federal judges, the apportionment of the US Senate, and the electoral college, being the antimajoritarian aspects of the structure of federal government, don’t seem relevant to this Washington state discussion. The Washington State bicameral legislature is proportionally representative in both houses and operates by majority rule in both houses. Our judges are elected at every level all the way up to the Supreme Court. I don’t think any of that has changed since the state was founded in 1889.

I suppose a judiciary can be considered to some extent “antimajoritarian” simply by its existence, in that rule of law helps prevent mob rule and re-channels efforts to change the law to the legislative process. But a judiciary is also upholding the laws enacted by the legislature, which is basically a pro-majoritarian function.

Hairsplitting about Constitutional Republic versus Representative Democracy doesn’t change the fact that self-governance, by either structure, involves consent of all to abide by the collective decision of the government. That is, by definition, rule of law.

So if our self-governmental process--the state legislature--changes the legal landscape in a way that prioritizes life or liberty over certain property rights, that is not tyranny just because one might disagree with the decision. A lawyer who stands against that process would be, by definition, opposing the rule of law.

None of which means a lawyer can’t fiercely advocate for a change in the law, or argue regulatory taking or whatever. But that’s not an “antimajoritarian” role for lawyers as a group; that’s individual advocacy within the law.

It’s incoherent to argue that “rule of law” prevents the legislature from changing the law. If one doesn’t like the change, one is simply arguing for the status quo. Of course one has a right to do so; but it does not make that person a righteous defender of rule of law, or a principled antimajoritarian. It’s just a political position, and win or lose the legislative battle, I would expect compliance with the law.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen

Sayre Law Offices, PLLC

1417 31st Ave South <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1417+31st+Ave+South+Seattle+WA+98144-3909?entry=gmail&source=g> 

Seattle WA 98144-3909 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1417+31st+Ave+South+Seattle+WA+98144-3909?entry=gmail&source=g> 

206-625-0092

 <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> eric at sayrelawoffices.com

Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.

From: K. Garl Long <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> > 
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 5:50 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >; Eric Nelsen <eric at sayrelawoffices.com <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

Our country was founded as a Constitutional Republic, not an absolute Democracy. We did this to avoid the institution of tyranny by the majority.  We did this to protect the minority, to assure that each person, would have the inalienable right live life in liberty, to pursue happiness without fearing deprivation by the majority. 

It is true that our constitutions have been much weakened, it may be that this will continue until the majority can trample unfettered on the rights of disfavored groups; it will most certainly occur if lawyers do not stand for the rule of law, especially against the majority.

KGL

On 12/17/2020 05:34 PM, Eric Nelsen wrote:

It would be good for some real property lawyers to be involved in further discussions of the moratoria, and certainly anything as consequential as legislation.

“Outvoting y’all” is also called majority rule in a democracy. That rests on the social contract, that for the greater good of all, the minority agrees to abide by the decision of the majority. There is a flood of opinionated people in this country right now who appear to have forgotten that. I would hope that lawyers as a group have not forgotten. If our legislators change the priorities between property rights and life and liberty interests, that is how self-governance works.

“Expropriation of dwellings” bollocks. No landlord is being removed from their home. Landlords’ right to use the courts to enforce payment of rent is being temporarily blocked during a health emergency. The debt remains owing and there will be a huge financial and legal mess to clean up. But I think calling it “expropriation of dwellings” is hardly appropriate.

Sincerely,

Eric

Eric C. Nelsen

Sayre Law Offices, PLLC

1417 31st Ave South <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1417+31st+Ave+South+Seattle+WA+98144-3909?entry=gmail&source=g> 

Seattle WA 98144-3909 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/1417+31st+Ave+South+Seattle+WA+98144-3909?entry=gmail&source=g> 

206-625-0092

 <mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com> eric at sayrelawoffices.com

Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and deliveries to the Seattle office.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>   <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Lenard Wittlake
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 4:36 PM
To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'  <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

So there you have it.  There are enough who “vehemently support” the “expropriation of dwellings” that they can now outvote y’all, so what do you expect from politicians?

Since the Governor has not “surgically” addressed the overreach problems in four iterations of the moratorium, it is not likely going to happen in the fifth.

It appears to be time for the section to organize an evaluation of the proposed legislation.  I assume our appointed leaders are working on such.

Lenard L Wittlake, PLLC

Attorney & Counselor at Law

22 East Poplar Street, Suite 202 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/22+East+Poplar+Street,+Suite+202?entry=gmail&source=g> 

P.O. Box 1233

Walla Walla, WA 99362

(509) 529-1529 voice

(509) 850-3515 fax

www.lwattorney.com <http://www.lwattorney.com> 

Lenard at wittlakelaw.com <mailto:Lenard at wittlakelaw.com> 

The information contained in this email may be privileged, confidential or

otherwise protected from disclosure.  If you received this email in error,

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From:  <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [ <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Christy M
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 2:41 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

I, for one, do not meekly accept; I vehemently support.  

-------- Original message --------

From: "K. Garl Long" <Garl at longlaw.biz <mailto:Garl at longlaw.biz> > 

Date: 12/17/20 2:15 PM (GMT-08:00) 

To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> > 

Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session 

If you choose to put money that you have earned into the pocket of the owner of a dwelling, in exchange for the privilege of living there, it is called a contract.

If the government expropriates the dwelling from the owner so that you can live there without paying, it is theft. You may recall that the Intolerable Acts included such expropriation of dwellings.  This is what our founders fought against, and which we now meekly accept.

KGL

On 12/17/2020 01:55 PM, Andrew Hay wrote:

Voltaire again … As far as his notion of government taking money from one class and giving to another, as a non-landlord, I see my money going to  the pockets of landlords.  I fund governmental benefits with my taxes.  Those benefits are paid to landlords for rent.  Generally, rent paid to landlords by those on government benefits is a disproportionately high percentage of their income.  Voltaire would likely conclude the landlords are the ones benefitting from this governmental transfer.

Perhaps the moratorium suspends this transfer to landlords to allow my taxes to temporarily fund pandemic relief.

Andrew Hay

Hay & Swann PLLC

201 S. 34th St.

Tacoma, WA 98418

 <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonlaw.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C3ad32d5fc4764794e46e08d8a2d935b8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637438401075055698%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=DtUXJVBQr9jrfAcs0VP8AjpgaqzovLn11GNixl6v0Ug%3D&reserved=0> www.washingtonlaw.net

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From:  <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [ <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of K. Garl Long
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 1:34 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv; Rob Rowley
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

It is not inequality which is the real misfortune, it is dependence. Voltaire again.

On 12/17/2020 11:25 AM, Rob Rowley wrote:

In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to another.  Voltaire.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Chris B
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:59 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

I just entered into an agreement to sell 4 of my 12 rental homes as a package.  All will be town down and replaced with McMansions. These are nice homes that I am proud to own, two of which have tenants in them for more than 10 years.  While all my tenants are current in their rent, I no longer wish to be in the rental housing business in a state that is clearly trying to kill that business.  

As they say, it is “a feature, not a bug.”

Chris Benis

Hecker, Wakefield & Feilberg, P.S.

321 First Avenue West, Seattle, WA <https://www.google.com/maps/search/321+First+Avenue+West,+Seattle,+WA+98119?entry=gmail&source=g>   98119 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/321+First+Avenue+West,+Seattle,+WA+98119?entry=gmail&source=g> 

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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Rani K. Sampson
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:51 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

The long-term consequences of forcing landlords to absorb large financial losses are predictable:  landlords will liquidate their real estate investments (they’ll sell).  Tenants will have much less housing to choose from.  Rental houses will be incredibly hard to find.  The void might be filled by corporate landlords building apartments or government landlords building projects.  

This is very bad for tenants, long term.  The loss of rental housing will affect all of us.

Rani K. Sampson

Overcast Law Offices | Attorney

 <https://www.google.com/maps/search/23+S+Wenatchee+Ave+%23320,+Wenatchee+WA+98801?entry=gmail&source=g> 23 S Wenatchee Ave #320, Wenatchee WA 98801 | (509) 663-5588 x 6

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>  <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Kary Krismer
Sent: Thursday, December 17, 2020 10:37 AM
To: wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> 
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Landlord Question - Next legislative session

You're generalizing.  The moratorium protects an entire class regardless of their need, at the expense of another class, regardless of their need.  If it were based on economics I'd have little problem with it, but it's not.  Beyond that though, I'm worried about the long term adverse effects on those who actually need the protection.  The moratorium may have given them a false sense of security and lead them to make bad decisions.  Back when I practiced law I did primarily debtor bankruptcy and the moratorium is likely causing people to make decisions that no competent financial planner would ever advise them to make.

Also, you can't even assume someone who rents cannot afford to own.  They may just not wish to own for many different reasons.

Kary L. Krismer
206 723-2148

On 12/17/2020 10:20 AM, Andrew Hay wrote:

I will take the pro moratorium position.  Donning my suit of armor at the same time…..

This is a time of great economic pain due to a pandemic unequaled by any health crisis in 100 years.  The moratoriums are a policy protecting the most vulnerable people in the population as a whole – renters.  As a group they are either poor or old or both.  They are people who can’t afford homes due to lack of wealth.

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-- 

James R. Doran

Attorney at Law

100 E. Pine Street -  Suite 205

Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506

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www.doranlegal.com <http://www.doranlegal.com> 

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