[WSBARP] WSBARP Digest, Vol 71, Issue 6
Stephen Whitehouse
swhite8893 at aol.com
Wed Aug 5 19:48:46 PDT 2020
I think a simple query answers the question. If the principal is incompetent, then who can sign? If your treasurer is correct, the answer is, no one and therefore there can be no transaction. That is obviously absurd. Call the Department of Revenue excise tax division. They could, perhaps intercede.
Steve Whitehouse
Sent from my iPad
> On Aug 5, 2020, at 4:29 PM, wsbarp-request at lists.wsbarppt.com wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Joshua McKarcher)
> 2. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Eric Nelsen)
> 3. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Claudia A Gowan)
> 4. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Josh Grant)
> 5. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Josh Grant)
> 6. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (nestor at pplsweb.com)
> 7. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (jbdolan at jbdolan.com)
> 8. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Kailei Feeney)
> 9. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Brian Dano)
> 10. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Josh Grant)
> 11. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed byP of A?
> (Josh Grant)
> 12. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Brian Dano)
> 13. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Joshua McKarcher)
> 14. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Eric Nelsen)
> 15. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (scott at scottgthomaslaw.com)
> 16. Re: REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of
> A? (Claudia A Gowan)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 19:06:42 +0000
> From: Joshua McKarcher <josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID:
> <MW3PR11MB46526F23C3C6351C9B3F4701BB4B0 at MW3PR11MB4652.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> We also have to submit two separate checks in Asotin County, one to Treasurer and one to Auditor/Recorder. However, the REET signature line itself plainly refers to the grantor/grantee or agent, as do the instructions for Box 8. So that is just a misunderstanding on the person?s part. A little patience and kind explanation should get you there. ? Best, Josh
>
> Joshua D. McKarcher
> McKarcher Law PLLC
> 537 6th Street
> Clarkston, WA 99403
> (509) 758-3345
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com<mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
> Josh
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 19:06:58 +0000
> From: Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID:
> <57DC2058F333E340877E551711127784BC7F2AB5 at SBS2011.SayreLawOffices.local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Weird and unlikely. Sounds like snafu at the treasurer's office.
>
> The two-checks thing is normal, but confirm who the payees are supposed to be. Some counties will take a combined check to the Auditor/Recorder, and others want the recording fee payable to the Auditor/Recorder and the $10 on the REETA to the Treasurer. But I can never remember which counties allow a combined check, so I usually end up sending two.
>
> Except for King County, which I do remember will take a combined check to the Auditor (at least when the REETA is exempt and it's just a $10 minimum charge) and the Auditor must divvy up the money with the Treasurer afterward. If I'm actually paying excise tax, I make it two checks even for King County.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Eric
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
> 1417 31st Ave South
> Seattle WA 98144-3909
> 206-625-0092
> eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
>
> Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone; please call the Seattle office. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis; please call the Seattle office.
>
> MAIL AND DELIVERIES can be received at the Seattle office. For any other needed arrangements, please call the Seattle office.
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can't the supplemental statement REET form which just says it's a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
> Josh
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 20:09:48 +0000
> From: Claudia A Gowan <claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID:
> <MW3PR13MB4153344FDE8C183FB85D5A62CA4B0 at MW3PR13MB4153.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer?s office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
> Definitions.
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
> (5) Documentation.
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> Best, Claudia
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
> Seattle, WA 98154
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com<mailto:claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com<http://www.seattletrustsandestates.com/>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
> Josh
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:28:02 -0700
> From: "Josh Grant" <jgrant at accima.com>
> To: "WSBA Real Property Listserv" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID: <A91570AA87B14608A1A8EF4792EEF127 at JoshPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> they require 3 checks. one to the treasurer and two to the auditor, one for the $10 REET fee and one for the recording.
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: Joshua McKarcher
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 12:06 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> We also have to submit two separate checks in Asotin County, one to Treasurer and one to Auditor/Recorder. However, the REET signature line itself plainly refers to the grantor/grantee or agent, as do the instructions for Box 8. So that is just a misunderstanding on the person?s part. A little patience and kind explanation should get you there. ? Best, Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua D. McKarcher
>
> McKarcher Law PLLC
>
> 537 6th Street
>
> Clarkston, WA 99403
>
> (509) 758-3345
>
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
>
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
>
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 13:34:43 -0700
> From: "Josh Grant" <jgrant at accima.com>
> To: "WSBA Real Property Listserv" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID: <ECB2F148106D4B97B03C261A9DD7A118 at JoshPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn?t sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
>
> That is probably where they got that. It?s not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that ?signed by the grantor? also means that a ?grantor? includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
>
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
>
>
> Josh
>
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer?s office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
>
>
> Definitions.
>
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
>
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
>
>
> (5) Documentation.
>
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
>
>
> Best, Claudia
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
>
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
>
> Seattle, WA 98154
>
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
>
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com
>
>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
>
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 12:50:28 -0700
> From: <nestor at pplsweb.com>
> To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID: <002f01d66b61$acc74ab0$0655e010$@pplsweb.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> You need to go higher up in the food chain at the County office. Makes no sense that they will turn down a REET properly signed by an agent.
>
>
>
>
>
> Nestor Gorfinkel, Attorney at Law
>
> Licensed in Washington & Florida
>
> Florida Civil-Law (International) Notary
>
>
>
> ATTENTION - This e-mail message and any attachment to this e-mail message may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not review, retransmit, convert to hard copy, copy, use or disseminate this e-mail or any attachments to it. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephone at the phone numbers provided herein and delete this message. Please note that if this e-mail message contains a forwarded message or is a reply to a prior message, some or all of the contents of this message or any attachments may not have been produced by the sender.
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> P Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail.
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>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Joshua McKarcher
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 12:07 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> We also have to submit two separate checks in Asotin County, one to Treasurer and one to Auditor/Recorder. However, the REET signature line itself plainly refers to the grantor/grantee or agent, as do the instructions for Box 8. So that is just a misunderstanding on the person?s part. A little patience and kind explanation should get you there. ? Best, Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua D. McKarcher
>
> McKarcher Law PLLC
>
> 537 6th Street
>
> Clarkston, WA 99403
>
> (509) 758-3345
>
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
>
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com <mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
>
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:14:37 -0700
> From: <jbdolan at jbdolan.com>
> To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID: <001501d66b6d$6d50afa0$47f20ee0$@jbdolan.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Skagit County has the same policy - an agent can sign a REETA but the Treasurer?s office requires the Grantor and Grantee to sign the Gift Supplement. If the underlying POA gives the AIF/Agent authority to convey real property and the authority to make gifts, your client should be able to sign the Gift Supplement, IMHO, because, um, that?s what a POA is for. In my situation, the Grantor was available and competent to sign, so I went and got her signature. (Sometimes it is easier to just lay on the floor of the cage and take the shocks.) If she had not been capable of signing, I guess I would have had to duke it out at the Treasurer?s office. If your Grantor is no longer able to sign, perhaps trying speaking with someone in the excise department at DOR in Olympia would help?
>
>
>
> Jim Dolan
>
>
>
> ===================
>
>
>
> Jones Butler Dolan, PS
>
> <http://www.jbdolan.com> www.jbdolan.com
>
> <http://www.jonesbutlerdolan.com> www.jonesbutlerdolan.com
>
>
>
> Mount Vernon
>
>
>
> P.O. Box 2784
>
> 415 Pine Street
>
> Mount Vernon, WA 98273
>
> Telephone: 360-336-2939
>
> Facsimile: 360-336-2949
>
>
>
> Stanwood
>
>
>
> P.O. Box 458
>
> 10027 - 269th Place NW (SR 532)
>
> Stanwood, WA 98292
>
> Telephone: 360-629-3833
>
> Facsimile: 360-629-6253
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:35 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn?t sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
>
> That is probably where they got that. It?s not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that ?signed by the grantor? also means that a ?grantor? includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
>
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
>
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
>
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer?s office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
>
>
> Definitions.
>
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
>
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
>
>
> (5) Documentation.
>
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
>
>
> Best, Claudia
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
>
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
>
> Seattle, WA 98154
>
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
>
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com <mailto:claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
>
>
>
> <http://www.seattletrustsandestates.com/> www.seattletrustsandestates.com
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
>
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> _____
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 21:27:47 +0000
> From: Kailei Feeney <kailei at westseattlelaw.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID:
> <MW3PR22MB2266507CB05B59C5FC659E47A74B0 at MW3PR22MB2266.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Agree with the comments that the WACs require parties to the gift, and not agent to sign, as allowed on the REET.
>
> Why not record the POA?
>
> Perhaps that would facilitate.
>
> Kailei
> Kailei B. Feeney
> Attorney-at-Law
> [cid:image002.jpg at 01D66B34.960DDA50]
> 3909 California Avenue SW
> Seattle, WA 98116-3705
> (206)938-5500
> kailei at westseattlelaw.com<mailto:kailei at westseattlelaw.com>
> www.westseattlelaw.com<http://www.westseattlelaw.com/>
> For the latest information regarding firm operations and precautions in light of the Coronavirus please visit our firm?s website: www.WestSeattleLaw.com<http://www.WestSeattleLaw.com>.
> Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook: [FB Logo] <https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney>
> CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail message and any attachment. Unless you have previously signed an engagement agreement with this firm, and the firm has accepted you as a client, NO exchange of information by virtue of emails or communications will create any attorney client relationship, including any duty of confidentiality, between sender and/or recipient.
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of jbdolan at jbdolan.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:15 PM
> To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Skagit County has the same policy - an agent can sign a REETA but the Treasurer?s office requires the Grantor and Grantee to sign the Gift Supplement. If the underlying POA gives the AIF/Agent authority to convey real property and the authority to make gifts, your client should be able to sign the Gift Supplement, IMHO, because, um, that?s what a POA is for. In my situation, the Grantor was available and competent to sign, so I went and got her signature. (Sometimes it is easier to just lay on the floor of the cage and take the shocks.) If she had not been capable of signing, I guess I would have had to duke it out at the Treasurer?s office. If your Grantor is no longer able to sign, perhaps trying speaking with someone in the excise department at DOR in Olympia would help?
>
> Jim Dolan
>
> ===================
>
> Jones Butler Dolan, PS
> www.jbdolan.com<http://www.jbdolan.com>
> www.jonesbutlerdolan.com<http://www.jonesbutlerdolan.com>
>
> Mount Vernon
>
> P.O. Box 2784
> 415 Pine Street
> Mount Vernon, WA 98273
> Telephone: 360-336-2939
> Facsimile: 360-336-2949
>
> Stanwood
>
> P.O. Box 458
> 10027 - 269th Place NW (SR 532)
> Stanwood, WA 98292
> Telephone: 360-629-3833
> Facsimile: 360-629-6253
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:35 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn?t sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
> That is probably where they got that. It?s not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that ?signed by the grantor? also means that a ?grantor? includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer?s office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
> Definitions.
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
> (5) Documentation.
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> Best, Claudia
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
> Seattle, WA 98154
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com<mailto:claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com<http://www.seattletrustsandestates.com/>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
> Josh
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
> ________________________________
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 21:30:18 +0000
> From: Brian Dano <bricyn at danolawfirm.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID:
> <MWHPR05MB3023672BAE5695AD47E10BE2D64B0 at MWHPR05MB3023.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Anyone doing anything in Grant County that involves the Treasurer?s office be warned?
>
> Brian Dano
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:35 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn?t sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
> That is probably where they got that. It?s not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that ?signed by the grantor? also means that a ?grantor? includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer?s office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
> Definitions.
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
> (5) Documentation.
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> Best, Claudia
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
> Seattle, WA 98154
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com<mailto:claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com<http://www.seattletrustsandestates.com/>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
> Josh
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
> ________________________________
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:47:06 -0700
> From: "Josh Grant" <jgrant at accima.com>
> To: "WSBA Real Property Listserv" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID: <ED42711367BC49CE89364EB66A5AE9B7 at JoshPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
>
> they had the PoA for recording. didn?t matter.
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: Kailei Feeney
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 2:27 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Agree with the comments that the WACs require parties to the gift, and not agent to sign, as allowed on the REET.
>
>
>
> Why not record the POA?
>
>
>
> Perhaps that would facilitate.
>
>
>
> Kailei
>
> Kailei B. Feeney
> Attorney-at-Law
>
>
>
> 3909 California Avenue SW
>
> Seattle, WA 98116-3705
>
> (206)938-5500
>
> kailei at westseattlelaw.com
>
> www.westseattlelaw.com
>
> For the latest information regarding firm operations and precautions in light of the Coronavirus please visit our firm?s website: www.WestSeattleLaw.com.
>
> Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook:
>
> CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail message and any attachment. Unless you have previously signed an engagement agreement with this firm, and the firm has accepted you as a client, NO exchange of information by virtue of emails or communications will create any attorney client relationship, including any duty of confidentiality, between sender and/or recipient.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of jbdolan at jbdolan.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:15 PM
> To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> Skagit County has the same policy - an agent can sign a REETA but the Treasurer?s office requires the Grantor and Grantee to sign the Gift Supplement. If the underlying POA gives the AIF/Agent authority to convey real property and the authority to make gifts, your client should be able to sign the Gift Supplement, IMHO, because, um, that?s what a POA is for. In my situation, the Grantor was available and competent to sign, so I went and got her signature. (Sometimes it is easier to just lay on the floor of the cage and take the shocks.) If she had not been capable of signing, I guess I would have had to duke it out at the Treasurer?s office. If your Grantor is no longer able to sign, perhaps trying speaking with someone in the excise department at DOR in Olympia would help?
>
>
>
> Jim Dolan
>
>
>
> ===================
>
>
>
> Jones Butler Dolan, PS
>
> www.jbdolan.com
>
> www.jonesbutlerdolan.com
>
>
>
> Mount Vernon
>
>
>
> P.O. Box 2784
>
> 415 Pine Street
>
> Mount Vernon, WA 98273
>
> Telephone: 360-336-2939
>
> Facsimile: 360-336-2949
>
>
>
> Stanwood
>
>
>
> P.O. Box 458
>
> 10027 - 269th Place NW (SR 532)
>
> Stanwood, WA 98292
>
> Telephone: 360-629-3833
>
> Facsimile: 360-629-6253
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:35 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn?t sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
>
> That is probably where they got that. It?s not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that ?signed by the grantor? also means that a ?grantor? includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
>
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
>
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
>
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer?s office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
>
>
> Definitions.
>
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
>
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
>
>
> (5) Documentation.
>
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
>
>
> Best, Claudia
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
>
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
>
> Seattle, WA 98154
>
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
>
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com
>
>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
>
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 14:49:29 -0700
> From: "Josh Grant" <jgrant at accima.com>
> To: "WSBA Real Property Listserv" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> byP of A?
> Message-ID: <3D1829C599BC4A1BAA40D450DDB362A8 at JoshPC>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Yep, I am going to lay on the floor as well. Grantor is old and in a long term care facility, but we are going to try and get it signed. But that condition could change.?
> Thanks
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: jbdolan at jbdolan.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 2:14 PM
> To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed byP of A?
>
> Skagit County has the same policy - an agent can sign a REETA but the Treasurer?s office requires the Grantor and Grantee to sign the Gift Supplement. If the underlying POA gives the AIF/Agent authority to convey real property and the authority to make gifts, your client should be able to sign the Gift Supplement, IMHO, because, um, that?s what a POA is for. In my situation, the Grantor was available and competent to sign, so I went and got her signature. (Sometimes it is easier to just lay on the floor of the cage and take the shocks.) If she had not been capable of signing, I guess I would have had to duke it out at the Treasurer?s office. If your Grantor is no longer able to sign, perhaps trying speaking with someone in the excise department at DOR in Olympia would help?
>
>
>
> Jim Dolan
>
>
>
> ===================
>
>
>
> Jones Butler Dolan, PS
>
> www.jbdolan.com
>
> www.jonesbutlerdolan.com
>
>
>
> Mount Vernon
>
>
>
> P.O. Box 2784
>
> 415 Pine Street
>
> Mount Vernon, WA 98273
>
> Telephone: 360-336-2939
>
> Facsimile: 360-336-2949
>
>
>
> Stanwood
>
>
>
> P.O. Box 458
>
> 10027 - 269th Place NW (SR 532)
>
> Stanwood, WA 98292
>
> Telephone: 360-629-3833
>
> Facsimile: 360-629-6253
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:35 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn?t sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
>
> That is probably where they got that. It?s not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that ?signed by the grantor? also means that a ?grantor? includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
>
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
>
>
> Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
>
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer?s office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
>
>
> Definitions.
>
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
>
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
>
>
> (5) Documentation.
>
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
>
>
> Best, Claudia
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
>
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
>
> Seattle, WA 98154
>
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
>
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com
>
>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
>
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 21:54:07 +0000
> From: Brian Dano <bricyn at danolawfirm.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID:
> <MWHPR05MB3023FF1803FD3A3BD7243314D64B0 at MWHPR05MB3023.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I sent my comment below before reading a number of your helpful comments, however no amount of arguing, cajoling, yelling, lawyering, smiling, threatening, or any other approach sways this guy who fancies himself as the final and only word on all applicable statutes and WACs?and then, he spreads his law around the State to other Treasurer?s who sometimes follow suit?
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Brian Dano
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:30 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Anyone doing anything in Grant County that involves the Treasurer?s office be warned?
>
> Brian Dano
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:35 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn?t sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
> That is probably where they got that. It?s not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that ?signed by the grantor? also means that a ?grantor? includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer?s office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
> Definitions.
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
> (5) Documentation.
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> Best, Claudia
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
> Seattle, WA 98154
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com<mailto:claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com<http://www.seattletrustsandestates.com/>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
> Josh
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
> ________________________________
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:05:27 +0000
> From: Joshua McKarcher <josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID:
> <MW3PR11MB4652EEF786DE0766F7DB588EBB4B0 at MW3PR11MB4652.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Yikes, I see my initial reply was entirely unhelpful -- my apologies. I missed that it was the supplemental statement re gifts that they declined. Moving too quickly here.
>
> I have always thought the REETA regulation specifying that an agent may sign means agents even beyond those formally appointed under a POA may sign - such as an attorney or other person familiar with the facts stated in the REETA. (I have not been asked to submit a POA when I have (rarely) signed only the REETA as an attorney, for example.) Perhaps I am wrong and have "gotten away with it" a couple times.
>
> But, regardless, insofar the supplemental statement regulation does not authorize an agent, then I think that should be read to mean it could not be signed by a non-POA agent like an attorney or other person familiar with the facts. It must be signed by the grantor/grantee - or an agent under a valid POA, or a court-appointed conservator holding an order approving the gift (if such a thing exists), or another person authorized by applicable law to act on the grantor's/grantee's behalf.
>
> But neither regulation should reasonably be read to mean that the supplemental statement could not be signed by the grantor's or grantee's agent under a valid POA signed by grantor/grantee. Of course, the POA would have to include the power to gift, etc., but that is required for the deed itself.
>
> Otherwise, the regulation is likely in conflict with the POA (or other) statutes and thereby invalid.
>
> Anyhow, this email is probably just as unhelpful as the first. Kudos to those who got it right the first time! ;)
>
> Joshua D. McKarcher
> McKarcher Law PLLC
> 537 6th Street
> Clarkston, WA 99403
> (509) 758-3345
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com
> ________________________________
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Josh Grant <jgrant at accima.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:34:43 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn't sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
>
> That is probably where they got that. It's not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that "signed by the grantor" also means that a 'grantor' includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
>
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer's office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
>
>
> Definitions.
>
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
>
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
>
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
>
>
> (5) Documentation.
>
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
>
>
> Best, Claudia
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
>
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
>
> Seattle, WA 98154
>
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
>
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com
>
>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com<http://www.seattletrustsandestates.com/>
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can't the supplemental statement REET form which just says it's a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
>
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> ________________________________
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 22:38:03 +0000
> From: Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID:
> <57DC2058F333E340877E551711127784BC7F2D02 at SBS2011.SayreLawOffices.local>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Watching these comments come in, I am in increasing disbelief that multiple counties are interpreting the WAC that way. I know of no other circumstance where a simple statutory or regulatory statement that something must be "signed by the grantor" is interpreted to mean that the grantor, and only the grantor and not an agent, must physically be the individual who puts pen to paper.
>
> Delve into the common law and it's clear that having someone "sign" a paper is a mystical concept that is satisfied in the law by having some kind of mark made on the paper either by the person or by any authorized agent. It can be satisfied in any number of ways: You can sign with an "X." You can have someone else write your name. You can have someone else write someone else's name and that can still be deemed your signature for purposes of your affirmation of the document. You can sign someone else's name, and it can still bind you. You can write "this is not my signature" as your signature and it can still bind you. You can have an agent write "John Smith" and assert that is how you spell your name, and assert also that "John Smith" is pronounced "Vladimir Wachowsky."
>
> It doesn't have to be ink either. I could "sign" a declaration under penalty of perjury by asking the barista from the coffee shop across the street to spill a little caramel sauce somewhere on the page. The point isn't the ink, or the symbols or mark, or the identity of the individual physically making the mark-the point is intent to sign the document, and the mark is no more than evidence of that intent, whatever the circumstance by which the mark hits the page.
>
> Frankly, I think it's superfluous that the WAC says that a grantor's or grantee's "agent" can sign the REETA. There is no need to specify whether or not an agent can sign such a document, and the mere fact that is expressly says "agent" does not by implication retroactively construe a lack of agent authority under every other statute and regulation that fails to mention having an agent sign on behalf of a principal.
>
> Leaving aside my common-law melodrama, it's also an interpretation of the WAC that flies in the face of RCW 11.125.380<https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.380>:
>
> RCW 11.125.380<http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.380>
> Agent authority-Taxes.
> Unless the power of attorney otherwise provides, language in a power of attorney granting general authority with respect to taxes authorizes the agent to:
> (1) Prepare, sign, and file federal, state, local, and foreign income, gift, payroll, property, federal insurance contributions act, and other tax returns, claims for refunds, requests for extension of time, petitions regarding tax matters, and any other tax-related documents, including receipts, offers, waivers, consents, including consents and agreements under internal revenue code section 2032A, 26 U.S.C. Sec. 2032A, as amended, closing agreements, and any power of attorney required by the internal revenue service or other taxing authority including, but not limited to, an internal revenue service form 2848 in favor of any third party with respect to a tax year upon which the statute of limitations has not run and the following twenty-five tax years;
> (2) Pay taxes due, collect refunds, post bonds, receive confidential information, and contest deficiencies determined by the internal revenue service or other taxing authority;
> (3) Exercise any election available to the principal under federal, state, local, or foreign tax law; and
> (4) Act for the principal in all tax matters for all periods before the internal revenue service, or other taxing authority.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Eric
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
> 1417 31st Ave South
> Seattle WA 98144-3909
> 206-625-0092
> eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
>
> Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone; please call the Seattle office. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis; please call the Seattle office.
>
> MAIL AND DELIVERIES can be received at the Seattle office. For any other needed arrangements, please call the Seattle office.
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of jbdolan at jbdolan.com
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:15 PM
> To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Skagit County has the same policy - an agent can sign a REETA but the Treasurer's office requires the Grantor and Grantee to sign the Gift Supplement. If the underlying POA gives the AIF/Agent authority to convey real property and the authority to make gifts, your client should be able to sign the Gift Supplement, IMHO, because, um, that's what a POA is for. In my situation, the Grantor was available and competent to sign, so I went and got her signature. (Sometimes it is easier to just lay on the floor of the cage and take the shocks.) If she had not been capable of signing, I guess I would have had to duke it out at the Treasurer's office. If your Grantor is no longer able to sign, perhaps trying speaking with someone in the excise department at DOR in Olympia would help?
>
> Jim Dolan
>
> ===================
>
> Jones Butler Dolan, PS
> www.jbdolan.com<http://www.jbdolan.com>
> www.jonesbutlerdolan.com<http://www.jonesbutlerdolan.com>
>
> Mount Vernon
>
> P.O. Box 2784
> 415 Pine Street
> Mount Vernon, WA 98273
> Telephone: 360-336-2939
> Facsimile: 360-336-2949
>
> Stanwood
>
> P.O. Box 458
> 10027 - 269th Place NW (SR 532)
> Stanwood, WA 98292
> Telephone: 360-629-3833
> Facsimile: 360-629-6253
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:35 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn't sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
> That is probably where they got that. It's not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that "signed by the grantor" also means that a 'grantor' includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer's office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
> Definitions.
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
> (5) Documentation.
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> Best, Claudia
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
> Seattle, WA 98154
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com<mailto:claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com<http://www.seattletrustsandestates.com/>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can't the supplemental statement REET form which just says it's a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
> Josh
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
> ________________________________
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
> -------------- next part --------------
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 16:21:59 -0700
> From: <scott at scottgthomaslaw.com>
> To: "'WSBA Real Property Listserv'" <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID: <0c0e01d66b7f$37ff5fb0$a7fe1f10$@scottgthomaslaw.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I have worked for various state and local government entities since 1985, and I have to say that 3 checks to the same payee for the same transaction is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard of.
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:28 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> they require 3 checks. one to the treasurer and two to the auditor, one for the $10 REET fee and one for the recording.
>
>
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
>
>
> From: Joshua McKarcher
>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 12:06 PM
>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> We also have to submit two separate checks in Asotin County, one to Treasurer and one to Auditor/Recorder. However, the REET signature line itself plainly refers to the grantor/grantee or agent, as do the instructions for Box 8. So that is just a misunderstanding on the person?s part. A little patience and kind explanation should get you there. ? Best, Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua D. McKarcher
>
> McKarcher Law PLLC
>
> 537 6th Street
>
> Clarkston, WA 99403
>
> (509) 758-3345
>
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
>
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com <mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> > On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com> >
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
>
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can?t the supplemental statement REET form which just says it?s a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
>
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
>
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
>
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> _____
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.***
>
> _______________________________________________
> WSBARP mailing list
> WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com <mailto:WSBARP at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbarp
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2020 23:29:18 +0000
> From: Claudia A Gowan <claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed
> by P of A?
> Message-ID:
> <MW3PR13MB415311735F516DC3ED3A6A9CCA4B0 at MW3PR13MB4153.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Eric, your disbelief is on point. I have had so many arguments over the years with various recorder's office(s) about what exemptions should be cited and apply, what should be on the REET, what the WAC says, etc. I gather that a lot of us go through the same frustrations.
>
> My general approach has been to throw up my hands and do what they want unless what they want is clearly contrary to the law or documents in question. Really frustrating but the cost to client and attorney of arguing is often out of line to get the same outcome - a recorded document and REETA accepted.
>
> Best, Claudia
>
> PS at least at King County, they tell me that what they are accepting is what the DOR tells them they need in order to accept a REETA. So, the question is raised - what is DOR telling them and why do some counties interpret one way and another, another way.
>
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
> Seattle, WA 98154
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com<mailto:claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com<http://www.seattletrustsandestates.com/>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 3:38 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Watching these comments come in, I am in increasing disbelief that multiple counties are interpreting the WAC that way. I know of no other circumstance where a simple statutory or regulatory statement that something must be "signed by the grantor" is interpreted to mean that the grantor, and only the grantor and not an agent, must physically be the individual who puts pen to paper.
>
> Delve into the common law and it's clear that having someone "sign" a paper is a mystical concept that is satisfied in the law by having some kind of mark made on the paper either by the person or by any authorized agent. It can be satisfied in any number of ways: You can sign with an "X." You can have someone else write your name. You can have someone else write someone else's name and that can still be deemed your signature for purposes of your affirmation of the document. You can sign someone else's name, and it can still bind you. You can write "this is not my signature" as your signature and it can still bind you. You can have an agent write "John Smith" and assert that is how you spell your name, and assert also that "John Smith" is pronounced "Vladimir Wachowsky."
>
> It doesn't have to be ink either. I could "sign" a declaration under penalty of perjury by asking the barista from the coffee shop across the street to spill a little caramel sauce somewhere on the page. The point isn't the ink, or the symbols or mark, or the identity of the individual physically making the mark-the point is intent to sign the document, and the mark is no more than evidence of that intent, whatever the circumstance by which the mark hits the page.
>
> Frankly, I think it's superfluous that the WAC says that a grantor's or grantee's "agent" can sign the REETA. There is no need to specify whether or not an agent can sign such a document, and the mere fact that is expressly says "agent" does not by implication retroactively construe a lack of agent authority under every other statute and regulation that fails to mention having an agent sign on behalf of a principal.
>
> Leaving aside my common-law melodrama, it's also an interpretation of the WAC that flies in the face of RCW 11.125.380<https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.380>:
>
> RCW 11.125.380<http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.125.380>
> Agent authority-Taxes.
> Unless the power of attorney otherwise provides, language in a power of attorney granting general authority with respect to taxes authorizes the agent to:
> (1) Prepare, sign, and file federal, state, local, and foreign income, gift, payroll, property, federal insurance contributions act, and other tax returns, claims for refunds, requests for extension of time, petitions regarding tax matters, and any other tax-related documents, including receipts, offers, waivers, consents, including consents and agreements under internal revenue code section 2032A, 26 U.S.C. Sec. 2032A, as amended, closing agreements, and any power of attorney required by the internal revenue service or other taxing authority including, but not limited to, an internal revenue service form 2848 in favor of any third party with respect to a tax year upon which the statute of limitations has not run and the following twenty-five tax years;
> (2) Pay taxes due, collect refunds, post bonds, receive confidential information, and contest deficiencies determined by the internal revenue service or other taxing authority;
> (3) Exercise any election available to the principal under federal, state, local, or foreign tax law; and
> (4) Act for the principal in all tax matters for all periods before the internal revenue service, or other taxing authority.
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Eric
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
> 1417 31st Ave South
> Seattle WA 98144-3909
> 206-625-0092
> eric at sayrelawoffices.com<mailto:eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
>
> Covid-19 Update - All attorneys are working remotely during regular business hours and are available via email and by phone; please call the Seattle office. Videoconferencing also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed and will be handled on a case-by-case basis; please call the Seattle office.
>
> MAIL AND DELIVERIES can be received at the Seattle office. For any other needed arrangements, please call the Seattle office.
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of jbdolan at jbdolan.com<mailto:jbdolan at jbdolan.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:15 PM
> To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Skagit County has the same policy - an agent can sign a REETA but the Treasurer's office requires the Grantor and Grantee to sign the Gift Supplement. If the underlying POA gives the AIF/Agent authority to convey real property and the authority to make gifts, your client should be able to sign the Gift Supplement, IMHO, because, um, that's what a POA is for. In my situation, the Grantor was available and competent to sign, so I went and got her signature. (Sometimes it is easier to just lay on the floor of the cage and take the shocks.) If she had not been capable of signing, I guess I would have had to duke it out at the Treasurer's office. If your Grantor is no longer able to sign, perhaps trying speaking with someone in the excise department at DOR in Olympia would help?
>
> Jim Dolan
>
> ===================
>
> Jones Butler Dolan, PS
> www.jbdolan.com<http://www.jbdolan.com>
> www.jonesbutlerdolan.com<http://www.jonesbutlerdolan.com>
>
> Mount Vernon
>
> P.O. Box 2784
> 415 Pine Street
> Mount Vernon, WA 98273
> Telephone: 360-336-2939
> Facsimile: 360-336-2949
>
> Stanwood
>
> P.O. Box 458
> 10027 - 269th Place NW (SR 532)
> Stanwood, WA 98292
> Telephone: 360-629-3833
> Facsimile: 360-629-6253
>
>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:35 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Thanks Claudia that is helpful.
> 458-61A-201(5)(a) The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
> That was probably meant only to say that the signing by one of the parties to a gift wasn't sufficient to sign a Supp. statement. Literally taken is being interpreted strictly.
> That is probably where they got that. It's not worth the time to contest but my hunch is that "signed by the grantor" also means that a 'grantor' includes an attorney in fact under the POA statute.
> This is a treasurer widely know to be difficult. Anyone recording gift deeds in Grant County are warned.
>
> Josh
>
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
>
> From: Claudia A Gowan
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 1:09 PM
> To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
> Subject: Re: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> Hi, Josh, it does seem odd. Maybe the County Treasurer is interpreting the rules strictly? The below clearly states that for REET purposes, the REETA can be signed by an agent. However see 201(5)(a) below, the supplemental statement is to be signed by grantor and grantee. IMHO, the Treasurer's office is interpreting the rules too strictly. Common sense suggests that the agent could also sign the supplemental statement to the affidavit in compliance with the purposes of the chapter.
>
> 458-61A-102(1)
>
> Definitions.
> For the purposes of chapter 458-61A WAC, the following definitions apply unless the context requires otherwise:
>
> (1) "Affidavit" means the real estate excise tax affidavit provided by the department for use by taxpayers in reporting transfers of real property. Both the seller/grantor and the buyer/grantee, or their agents, sign the affidavit under penalty of perjury includes the form used to report to the department transfers and acquisitions of a controlling interest in an entity owning real property in this state under WAC 458-61A-. The term also 101.
>
> 458-61A-201(5)(a)
>
> (5) Documentation.
> (a) A completed real estate excise tax affidavit is required for transfers by gift. A supplemental statement approved by the department must be completed and attached to the affidavit. The supplemental statement will attest to the existence or absence of underlying debt on the property, whether the grantee has or will in the future make any payments on the debt, and whether a refinance of debt has occurred or is planned to occur. The statement must be signed by both the grantor and the grantee.
>
> Best, Claudia
>
> Claudia A. Gowan
>
> Claudia A. Gowan, PLLC
> 1001 Fourth Avenue, Suite 3200
> Seattle, WA 98154
> (206) 443-2733 (T)
> claudia at cagowanlaw.com<mailto:claudia at cagowanlaw.com>
>
> www.seattletrustsandestates.com<http://www.seattletrustsandestates.com/>
>
> From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
> Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2020 11:51 AM
> To: wsbar <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
> Subject: [WSBARP] REET Supp. Excise tax statement can't be signed by P of A?
>
> My client as P of A for her mom signed a gift deed for the grantor. County Treasurer returned everything including the supplemental statement REET form which accompanied the gift deed . With the notation that a P of A can not sign the supplemental statement REET form !! Where did that come from? So a P of A can sign a deed conveying real property but can't the supplemental statement REET form which just says it's a gift and there is no loan on the property. Seems odd to me.
>
> (They also said the Auditor needed 2 checks one for the $10 on the REET form and the rest for the recording fee.)
>
> Josh
> Joshua F. Grant
> [advocates]
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> 509 647 5578
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