[WSBARP] Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship - Affidavit of Lack of Probate

Thu May 23 09:40:57 PDT 2019

FINALLY!!  I think I broached this at least two years ago.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of John McCrady
Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2019 9:11 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship - Affidavit of Lack of Probate

Here<http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2019-20/Pdf/Bill%20Reports/Senate/5332-S.E%20SBR%20FBR%2019.pdf> is the final bill report on 5332

John McCrady
Counsel
Puget Sound Title Company
5350 Orchard Street West
University Place WA 98467
253-476-5721
j.mccrady at pstitle.com<mailto:j.mccrady at pstitle.com>

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Flatt, Danielle F.
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 5:18 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship - Affidavit of Lack of Probate

The legislature just passed SB 5332 this session which creates a short-form death certificate which will verify the fact of death but not the cause or manner of death.  The Dept of Health rule making process is supposed to begin later this summer.

Danielle F. Flatt
Attorney
Ryan, Swanson & Cleveland, PLLC
1201 Third Avenue, Suite 3400 | Seattle WA 98101-3034
Direct 206.654.2273 | Fax 206.652.2979
flatt at ryanlaw.com<mailto:flatt at ryanlaw.com> | www.ryanswansonlaw.com<https://www.ryanswansonlaw.com>

[Ryan Swanson and Cleveland Logo]
From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jeanne Dawes
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 4:40 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship - Affidavit of Lack of Probate

Here is the info I found regarding a potential short-form death certificate.  Apparently the bill never got out of the senate committee.

Jeanne

Jeanne J. Dawes
Attorney at Law
Gore & Grewe, P.S.
103 E. Indiana Avenue, Suite A
Spokane, WA 99207-2317
Voice:  509-326-7500
Fax:      509-326-7503
jjdawes at goregrewe.com<mailto:jjdawes at goregrewe.com>

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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Kathleen Hopkins
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 3:56 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship - Affidavit of Lack of Probate

Really is a consumer protection issue since identity theft could be rampant.  Anyone know someone in the AG’s office who could help us here?

Kathleen J. Hopkins
Real Property Law Group, PLLC
1326 Fifth Avenue, Suite 654
Seattle, WA 98101
Phone & Fax: (206) 625-0404
email: khopkins at rp-lawgroup.com<mailto:khopkins at rp-lawgroup.com>
www.rp-lawgroup.com<http://www.rp-lawgroup.com/>

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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 1:59 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship - Affidavit of Lack of Probate

This area is a mess.  The Island County Auditor says to record the whole death certificate and they redact the information.  This issue came up a few years ago and someone at the time from Spokane area said that the Auditor there said that if the attorney redacted the information from the death certificate, the attorney was “guilty” of defacing a public document.  Yikes.

[cid:image002.jpg at 01D5114B.9E513840]

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Kathleen Hopkins
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 1:24 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship - Affidavit of Lack of Probate

Seems like WSBA RPPT should lobby for a change in the law next session, no?  In the meantime, how about getting an AGO that the redaction is not a non-conforming document but done to prevent identity theft?

Kathleen J. Hopkins
Real Property Law Group, PLLC
1326 Fifth Avenue, Suite 654
Seattle, WA 98101
Phone & Fax: (206) 625-0404
email: khopkins at rp-lawgroup.com<mailto:khopkins at rp-lawgroup.com>
www.rp-lawgroup.com<http://www.rp-lawgroup.com/>

This message is protected by the attorney-client privilege and the work-product doctrine; if you are not the intended recipient of this message please let the sender know you received it in error and please delete this message.  Thank you.

Pursuant to U.S. Treasury Regulations concerning tax practice, you are advised that this message is not intended or written to be used, and it cannot be used, by anyone for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed under any tax laws; or promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Jeanne Dawes
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 11:45 AM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>; jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship - Affidavit of Lack of Probate

I recently had a conversation with our auditor about filing the death certificate in connection with a Community Property Agreement.  I wanted to redact social security number and mother’s maiden name, and was told if I do that on the Certified copy of the death certificate, that it would no longer be considered exempt from the recording format requirements, and would be a non-conforming document requiring the coversheet and additional $50 recording fee.

This came up in the context of filing a Surviving Spouse Affidavit in connection with a Community Property Agreement.  Typically I just file the Affidavit, and do not include the certified copy of the death certificate, because I do not want it to be of public record.  I noticed others do record the death certificate and do not redact any information.  That prompted my call to the auditor, and the information I received.  However, the auditor did indicate I could continue to file the Surviving Spouse Affidavit without attaching a death certificate.

I later discover that Steven’s county won’t record the Surviving Spouse Affidavit without a certified copy of the death certificate.   I do not know if they allow redactions.

I discovered there was a bill submitted in the legislature to create a short-form death certificate that does not contain all of the information on the now current death certificate, it would not include social, maiden name and cause of death, which really is not needed for our purposes and for good reason should not be required to be made of public record.  Unfortunately the bill did not get out of committee.  Maybe next year.

Jeanne

Jeanne J. Dawes
Attorney at Law
Gore & Grewe, P.S.
103 E. Indiana Avenue, Suite A
Spokane, WA 99207-2317
Voice:  509-326-7500
Fax:      509-326-7503
jjdawes at goregrewe.com<mailto:jjdawes at goregrewe.com>

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INFORMATION CONTAINED IN THIS E-MAIL TRANSMISSION IS PRIVILEGED AND CONFIDENTIAL.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Jennifer Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2019 11:15 AM
To: jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>; WSBA Real Property Listserv <wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] Joint Tenancy With Right of Survivorship - Affidavit of Lack of Probate

WAC 458-61A-202 hasn't changed.  I file cover sheets and death certificates like you do, and pay the $10 to the Treasurer.

I seem to be encountering increasing instances of county officials giving legal advice like this, although I think that they don't recognize it as legal advice because the lack of probate affidavit that you reference is a Department of Revenue sanctioned form.  People are being told to just file the affidavit so that they can claim the inheritance exemption from excise tax, without realizing that, from a legal perspective, that may be entirely the wrong course of action or, from a title insurance perspective, it tells us nothing that we need to know in order to insure a transaction.  That's just my two cents...

Jennifer Johnson
Title Officer | Attorney
Wahkiakum Title & Escrow Co.
(360) 795-3741
www.wahtitle.com<http://www.wahtitle.com>

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 9:16 AM Jeff Davis <jeff at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:jeff at bellanddavispllc.com>> wrote:
Listmates,

Client’s father titled his home in himself and his son & wife as joint tenants with right of survivorship.  Father died.  Jefferson County, I believe Auditor’s office, told client he needed to file an Affidavit of Lack of Probate.  The form they gave him is not nearly as detailed as those from title companies.  I have never used this affidavit when dealing with JTWROS.  Has something changed?  I have always just recorded the death certificate with a coversheet referencing the deed.  Your thoughts.

Jeff

W. Jeff Davis, Esq.
BELL & DAVIS PLLC
P.O. Box 510
Sequim WA 98382
Phone No.:(360) 683.1129
Fax No.: (360) 683.1258
email: info at bellanddavispllc.com<mailto:info at bellanddavispllc.com>
www.bellanddavispllc.com<http://www.bellanddavispllc.com/>

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