[WSBARP] (no subject)

Mon Oct 16 08:16:13 PDT 2017

Josh, in my model forms I throw in the kitchen sink and then take out what doesn't work. As to liening for violation fines, most recorded covenants don't support it so you can't, but I am always finding new sets of covenants that were written by developers and such who were trying to save money on lawyer fees, and who produced language that does support it. So, it depends on the recorded running covenants. But usually, no. For example, many are not clear what an "assessment" is. And they talk about annual fees and fines and so sometimes you can put two and two together.

Rob

Robert D. Wilson-Hoss 
Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP 
236 West Birch Street 
Shelton, WA 98584 
360 426-2999

www.hossandwilson-hoss.com
rob at hctc.com

This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you received this message in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its attachments.  Thank you.

This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose.  To the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. § 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have the right to seek advice of legal counsel.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2017 4:18 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] (no subject)

Rob

I have always thought that the HOA could not lien up real property for “fines” when the CC&R’s don’t say they can.  When they say lien is for assessments and say nothing about fines...

Josh

Joshua F. Grant, PS
Attorney at Law
P. O. Box 619
Wilbur, WA 99185
tel 509 647 5578
fax 509 647 2734

From: Rob Wilson-Hoss <mailto:rob at hctc.com>  

Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 9:00 AM

To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv' <mailto:wsbarp at lists.wsbarppt.com>  

Subject: Re: [WSBARP] (no subject)

Bryce, good question.  That statute says, "an opportunity to be heard by the board of directors or by the representative designated by the board of directors and in accordance with the procedures as provided in the bylaws or rules and regulations adopted by the board of directors, ..."

My rule includes the following procedures, which I think are enough, with the addition of Board decisions at the time of the hearing about the niceties, discussed below.  My rule is frankly an attempt to pull back from more formalistic rules that I have tried in the past and just plain don't fit most HOA cultures that I represent. Anyway, this is what they say now:

If the Board decides to take further action, the Member will be sent a letter explaining the circumstances, and inviting the Member to a Board of Directors meeting to be heard in response.  

The Member must let the Board know at least seven days before the meeting that he or she plans to attend, or needs a continuance. The Board shall give the Member a reasonable and fair opportunity to attend a meeting, but if the Member does not make reasonable efforts to do so, in the judgment of the Board, then the advantages of the meeting will not be available to the Member.  No more than one continuance will be offered, except for legitimate unavoidable circumstances.  The Member may appear through any electronic medium if the Member is able to make all arrangements, or by telephone if all Board members can hear and participate in the call.

At this Board meeting, the Member will have an opportunity to be heard on the matter; present testimony; give the Board documents, pictures, and other evidence; and explain the circumstances; all according to reasonable and fair procedures as determined by the Board. If the Board determines that the discussion should be continued to a later Board meeting to give everyone involved a fair chance to be heard and present evidence, and/or consider evidence that has been brought to its attention, it may do so. 

This meeting will be, first, an attempt to reach an Agreement, as specified generally above.  If no Agreement is possible, then the Board will discuss the matter and reach a decision. The Board will decide if one or more violations has occurred, and the consequences, as set out below. The Board cannot vary from Fabulous Acres Rules, including especially Covenants, to favor one Member when the same Rules apply to all other Members. However, the extent of the violation, and time frame for corrections, and other related matters, are subject to agreement.

If the Board finds that a violation has occurred, it shall take appropriate action, including imposition of a fine, remediation and/or correction requirements, and/or otherwise as set forth below. The Board shall provide for a clear conclusion, specifying the Rules violated and the fines and/or requirements imposed.  It may also include reasons for its decisions.  The Board shall follow up its decision with a writing to the Member explaining the result, within a reasonable time.  

          The reasonable and fair procedures as determined by the Board include such things as how long a person can go on, how many redundant witnesses are allowed, how nasty the remarks can be, and so on; and the Board is supposed to take care of all of those matters (as determined by the Board) when they come up and case-by-case.  The general procedures are already in the rule. I don't want a rule that tries to address every possible thing that may come up. I don't have enough paper in the office for that. 

By the way, my Bylaws always say, instead of invoking Robert's Rules of Order, that the Board shall adopt procedures for membership and Board meetings that are reasonable and fair. And that's it. I have never actually heard of any dispute about what reasonable and fair means.

Rob

Robert D. Wilson-Hoss 
Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP 
236 West Birch Street 
Shelton, WA 98584 
360 426-2999

www.hossandwilson-hoss.com <wlmailhtml:www.hossandwilsonhoss.com> 
rob at hctc.com

This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you received this message in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its attachments.  Thank you.

This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose.  To the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. § 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have the right to seek advice of legal counsel.

From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Bryce Dille
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:57 PM
To: WSBA Real Property Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBARP] (no subject)

I’d like to see your administrative rules concerning the hearing before the board pursuant to RCW64.38.020(11)

cid:image001.jpg at 01D1AB8F.1C8227E0

Bryce H. Dille | Attorney at Law

P: 253.848.3513| F: 253.845.4941

317 South Meridian

Puyallup, WA 98371

bryced at cdb-law.com

 <http://www.cdb-law.com/> www.cdb-law.com

This transmission contains confidential attorney-client communications and may not be disclosed to any person but the intended recipient(s).  If this matter is transmitted to you in error, please notify the sender immediately. 

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From: wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Rob Wilson-Hoss
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 1:40 PM
To: 'WSBA Real Property Listserv'
Subject: [WSBARP] (no subject)

This has to do with HOA property condition and behavior systems and fines. I have changed my system many times and this is where I am now. Thought it might help others to see what someone else is doing. I have tried to make this simpler; it relies on one person, either a board member or another volunteer, who can be nice when talking to members, but also has a backbone. And it avoids the pages and pages of listed violations and fines that I have seen in some places. 

Rob 

Robert D. Wilson-Hoss 
Hoss & Wilson-Hoss, LLP 
236 West Birch Street 
Shelton, WA 98584 
360 426-2999

www.hossandwilson-hoss.com <wlmailhtml:www.hossandwilsonhoss.com> 
rob at hctc.com

This message is intended solely for the use of the addressee and may contain information that is privileged, confidential, and exempt from disclosure under applicable law.  If you are not the addressee, you are hereby notified that any use, distribution, or copying of this message is strictly prohibited.  If you received this message in error, please notify us by reply e-mail or by telephone (call us collect at the number listed above) and immediately delete this message and any and all of its attachments.  Thank you.

This office does debt collection and this e-mail may be an attempt to collect a debt, Any information obtained will be used for that purpose.  To the extent the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act (15 U.S.C. § 1692) applies this firm is acting as a debt collector for the condominium/homeowners' association named above to collect a debt owed to it. Any information obtained will be used for collection purposes. You have the right to seek advice of legal counsel.

  _____  

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