[WSBARP] Excise tax and penalties for decedent - grant county

[Matt Albrecht]

Grant County is famous for overstepping its bounds.  Especially the
treasurer.  I had him object to an inheritance going through even after the
tax bills were paid simply because he didn't think there was enough proof
as to who the beneficiary was (even though every alternative beneficiary
signed off agreeing it was who we said it was).  I've always thought the
truth was that if it didn't go where we said it would have defaulted back
to the County, which is playing pretty dirty in my book.

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>
wrote:

>  Here's what I don't get: What authority does DOR have to require the PR
> to assert/declare *anything* regarding the 1st death? The conveyance is
> PR-to-buyer, or PR-to-heirs. It's either exempt or it isn't. Suppose the
> Deed is complete BS, and is from a random person outside chain of title to
> a duped buyer? Again, it's not DOR's job to inquire into the quality of
> Grantor's title, and I don't see that it has statutory authority to block a
> current transfer in order to strong-arm somebody into recording an
> *unnecessary* document on an earlier transfer.
>
>
>
> Again I think, class action. I don't mind paying taxes and I approve of
> government services in general, but I sure mind government departments
> overstepping what I see as their lawful bounds.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
>
> SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
>
> 1320 University St
>
> Seattle WA  98101-2837
>
> phone 206-625-0092
>
> fax 206-625-9040
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:
> wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *Richard Wills
> *Sent:* Friday, November 21, 2014 1:40 PM
> *To:* WSBA Real Property Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBARP] Excise tax and penalties for decedent - grant
> county
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/21/2014 12:03 PM, Eric Nelsen wrote:
>
> I recall something similar in King County a couple years ago, where a
> transaction was held up because the estate of the first spouse to die was
> never probated, and DOR refused to acknowledge that they had no basis to
> collect excise tax on the prior transfer. If I remember right, DOR insisted
> that excise tax is due unless an exemption is cited, and with no transfer
> on record with an exemption from first spouse to survivor, they can collect
> tax on that off-the-record transfer. Aside from that one instance, I
> haven't heard anything about it since.
>
>
> * I've recorded several PR's Deeds in King County where:*
>
>    1. *No probate of 1st death.*
>    2. *Probate of 2nd death.*
>    3. *PR of 2nd death does PR's Deed of family home.*
>    4. *PR of 2nd death also does Decl re prop was CP of couple & all went
>    to SS at 1st death.*
>    5. *Nobody yet (in King) has questioned the recording or transfer or
>    made any claim that REET was due at 1st death or that SS's PR's Decl failed
>    to result in REET exemption.*
>
> *As I say, that's only happened to me in Grant.*
>
>
>
>
>
> Seems like no good argument to me--it puts DOR in the position of
> verifying propriety of the transfer itself, whereas their role is supposed
> to be examining the transfer documents and collecting tax or permitting an
> exemption *on that specific transfer*. If your deed is "PR-of-H to
> Buyer,"  then I don't see why DOR should be permitted to require excise tax *on
> this transfer* for a completely different, "W-to-H" transfer that
> occurred off the record in 2009. If they don't like it, they should audit
> the prior transfer or start an action under RCW 82.45.080
> <http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=82.45&full=true#82.45.080>,
> not hold up the current conveyance.
>
>
>
> That's as I read RCW 82.45
> <http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=82.45&full=true>, anyway.
> Clearly DOR has a different opinion. Given the amounts typically at stake,
> it may take a class action to get it figured out.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
>
> SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC
>
> 1320 University St
>
> Seattle WA  98101-2837
>
> phone 206-625-0092
>
> fax 206-625-9040
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
> mailto:wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <wsbarp-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Josh Grant
> *Sent:* Friday, November 21, 2014 11:32 AM
> *To:* wsbar; wsbar trust
> *Subject:* [WSBARP] Excise tax and penalties for decedent - grant county
>
>
>
> H&W owned real property.  W died in 2009.  H died 2014.  Son is PR.  Pr
> has an P&S for a new buyer. PR is happy to pay the normal excise tax on
> this sale.
>
>
>
> Title company is allowing sale of W’s interest based on our affidavit to
> clear title, so no probate needed for W.
>
>
>
> Grant County indicates that we have to pay additional excise tax and
> penalties and interest from 2009 til now on the transfer from W to H... and
> they base that on a sale price = 1/2 of the assessed value.
>
>
>
> there was no sale back in 2009.  If we did a probate of W’s estate, they
> would have to file a PR deed without any excise tax.  It isn’t enough of an
> excise tax to justify doing a probate.
>
>
>
> any other counties doing this?
>
>
>
> Joshua F. Grant, PS
> Attorney at Law
> P. O. Box 619
> Wilbur, WA 99185
> tel 509 647 5578
> fax 509 647 2734
>
>
>
>
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