[WSBAPT] probate notice via mail - do CR5 and CR6 "work" differently from each other?

Tue Sep 9 23:52:48 PDT 2025

Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________  

September 9, 2025

Joshua,

Actually, I realize that I was wrong about what happens if the 3rd day after the mail arrives is a Saturday.  Both rules say that if the day in question (the third day after placing in the mail OR the last day of the period so computed) lands on a Saturday, Sunday or holiday, then the period runs until the first day that is not a Saturday, Sunday or holiday. 

So, you were right. If you had mailed something on Wednesday, September 3, service isn't complete until Monday.  So, the hearing cannot occur until Thursday, September 18.   

I guess it's been a long time since I mailed a 10 day notice on a Wednesday!!! 

Snohomish County's grid is clearly made for people like me!!  Thanks for having asked this question, it will save me from miscounting the next time I mail a 10 day notice!  

Andrekita Silva
Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
1325 Fourth Avenue, Suite 940
Seattle, Washington 98101-2509
206-224-8288
ak at seattle-silvalaw.com

On 2025/09/09 20:47, Joshua McKarcher wrote: 

> Fascinating. Have our fine state's litigators or civil practitioners
> or rule writers ever explained why these two adjacent rules describe
> this scenario so differently?  
> 
> Because it sure seems like service 13 days before a hearing date is
> 10 + 3 days in advance under CR6, and I don't understand how or why
> CR5 changes that.  
> 
> And if these rules are so difficult that our county courts require
> bizarre scenario tables to assist LAWYERS and JUDGES, how does that
> create a sensible, efficient and LEVEL playing field for our state's
> citizens, pro se or otherwise?  
> 
> I'm admitted and started my career in Virginia and DC, then moved
> back here to Idaho and Washington. I've never encountered such
> confusion -- much less two adjacent rules appearing to address the
> same issue -- in any state or federal jurisdiction (federal
> bankruptcy, district, or circuit courts of appeal).  
> 
> Mind blowing.  
> 
> You are very kind to have engaged me, Andrekita. Thank you. Best,
> Josh  
> 
> Joshua D. McKarcher 
> McKarcher Law PLLC 
> 537 6th Street 
> Clarkston, WA 99403 
> (509) 758-3345 
> (509) 758-3314 (fax) 
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com 
> www.mckarcherlaw.com [1] [1 [2]] 
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> From: Andrekita Silva <ak at seattle-silvalaw.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2025 7:40 PM
> To: Joshua McKarcher <josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
> Cc: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] probate notice via mail - do CR5 and CR6 "work"
> differently from each other? 
> 
> Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
> 
> September 9, 2025
> 
> Joshua,
> 
> If you mailed on Wednesday, September 3, then the date of service is
> Saturday, September 6.
> So, you start counting on Sunday. In that event, day 10 is on
> September 16. That is the earliest day you can hold a hearing.
> 
> Let's say you mailed on August 29. Monday is a holiday so service
> cannot be until Tuesday, September 2. In that case, the earliest
> hearing date is Friday, September 12. 
> 
> This day counting business can get so confusing that Snohomish County
> has a little calendar that, for purposes of calculating the deadline
> for Confirmation of Hearing, literally, it has a grid where it counts
> the days for you.  It says "if your hearing is on xxxx, the this day
> and time is when you can start confirming,  and this day and time is
> your deadline.  It's really helpful.
> 
> Andrekita Silva
> Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
> 1325 Fourth Avenue, Suite 940
> Seattle, Washington 98101-2509
> 206-224-8288
> ak at seattle-silvalaw.com
> 
> On 2025/09/09 19:25, Joshua McKarcher wrote: 
> 
>> Thank you, Andrekita. In your first example (CR5(b)(2)(A)), what do
>> you "get" if the 2nd is Wednesday, however, instead of Tuesday?
>> That's
>> my hypo. If you mail on Wed. 2nd, is service not "complete" until
>> Saturday-forwarded-to-Monday the 7th and then it is only 8 days
>> until
>> the following Tuesday the 15th?
>> 
>> Whereas under the CR6(a) "method" it seems much simpler: 10+3=13 and
>> Wednesday the 2nd is 13 days before Tuesday the 15th.
>> 
>> I've either found some black hole into which math goes to die, OR
>> one
>> of these does not mean what I "think" it means . . . . maybe?
>> 
>> I have this "feeling" it has to do with CR5(b)(2)(A) and its weird
>> "service is complete" mechanic not applying for probate notices, but
>> I
>> cannot put my finger on WHY I have this feeling.
>> 
>> From: Andrekita Silva <ak at seattle-silvalaw.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 9, 2025 7:17 PM
>> To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> Cc: Joshua McKarcher <josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
>> Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] probate notice via mail - do CR5 and CR6
>> "work"
>> differently from each other?
>> 
>> Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
> ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ 
> September 9, 2025
> 
> Joshua,
> 
> Maybe I am the one missing something. But, if you mailed on 9/2,
> then
> service by mail was complete on Friday, September 5.
> So, now 10 days notice is required. So, CR6 says you can't count the
> day of the act from which time begins to run.
> 
> So, start counting on Saturday, 9/6. The 10th day is Monday,
> September
> 15.  So, that is 10 days notice.
> 
> That's how I count it anyway.
> 
> CR6:
> In computing any period of time prescribed or allowed by these
> rules,
> by the local rules of any superior court, by order of court, or by
> any
> applicable statute, the day of
> the act, event, or default from which the designated period of time
> begins to run shall not be
> included. The last day of the period so computed shall be included,
> unless it is a Saturday, a
> Sunday or a legal holiday, in which event the period runs until the
> end of the next day which is
> neither a Saturday, a Sunday nor a legal holiday. Legal holidays are
> prescribed in RCW 1.16.050.
> When the period of time prescribed or allowed is less than 7 days,
> intermediate Saturdays,
> Sundays and legal holidays shall be excluded in the computation.
> 
> Andrekita Silva
> Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
> 1325 Fourth Avenue, Suite 940
> Seattle, Washington 98101-2509
> 206-224-8288
> ak at seattle-silvalaw.com
> 
> On 2025/09/09 16:22, Joshua McKarcher wrote:
> 
> When a probate hearing (such as one for nonintervention powers)
> requires 10-day notice…
> 
> CR6(a) states the usual rule that it counts weekends and holidays
> unless the period ends on one; and (e) states the "mail rule" that
> 3
> days are added to the period. This suggests the notice period for
> a
> probate pleading is 13 days.
> 
> But CR5(b)(2)(A) says service by mail is complete 3 days after
> placed
> in the mail except when that lands on a weekend or holiday.
> 
> Assume a hearing is on Tuesday the 15th of a month.
> 
> Service mailed out on Wednesday the 2nd is 13 days ahead, which is
> 10
> + 3 days, as under CR6.
> 
> But service mailed out on Wednesday the 2nd is (maybe?) not
> "complete"
> under CR5(b)(2)(A) until Monday the 7th (because 3 days after
> Wednesday is Saturday). And Monday the 7th is only 8 days before
> Tuesday the 15th. Is this 2 days shy of the required notice
> period?
> 
> I do not litigate enough. What am I missing here? Which method is
> correct in probate land where a hearing on nonintervention powers
> must
> be noticed up 10 days before the hearing and the hearing is on a
> Tuesday?
> 
> Help! Thanks!
> 
> Joshua D. McKarcher
> 
> McKarcher Law PLLC
> 
> 537 6th Street
> 
> Clarkston, WA 99403
> 
> (509) 758-3345
> 
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
> 
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com
> 
> www.mckarcherlaw.com [1] [1 [2]] [1 [1]] [1 [1]]
> 
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