[WSBAPT] Chase Bank
Goffe, Wendy S.
wendy.goffe at stoel.com
Wed Jul 19 16:30:50 PDT 2023
Thank you all for your stories and support. After a strongly worded email (when he found out the 40 day hold on the cashier check was being extended to 60) I let the manager know that the professor is well-connected to the media, locally and nationally, suggested she Google him, and let her know that it would be very unfortunate for this to show up in an exposé. The sad thing in the end, once it was resolved, is that I realized that my level of indignation and anger was higher than his. Then I realized that this has been his life for 70+ years. He has done an expert job at finding workarounds for things he shouldn’t have to. We have a lot of work to do.
Wendy S. Goffe (she/her/hers) | Partner
Direct: (206) 386-7565
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Pearce Law PLLC
Sent: Tuesday, July 18, 2023 10:33 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
This is certainly an eye opening thread (and yes, thank you for sharing your insights for those of you with experience in these matters.)On a side note, my personal experience with Chase many years ago following a simple divorce and the number of simple but stupid errors they mad
[cid:image001.png at 01D9BA5E.601E9750]<https://us.report.cybergraph.mimecast.com/alert-details/?dep=q44vbiWZU7JRtlNGZTWktw%3D%3D1xFQuHkjvy2F78RzV8oif7g3r9UA%2FuWcabqxg3LFpCRiEqTejp2jvpzZa7unyednw7MkkbnGgp%2FBH%2FB%2Br4m1vA985pBjzEyLnwaHO56QRjG5gchoohZmg9%2FCjez7CIQEAsTylpqlVpHv36XnMVQWuyk1q9zS7ZAS%2BEoNlorDYmS%2FELR4UvO07JZnR4tjSVL394FOSmaDYkwsOW9RR61zLmDwkLFkXF406SscRg4JiCyMjDE4g%2FdK1ZKJjyELdlL%2Fx%2Bd8WZ4N9c3RkM1YDLdlSV%2FQKcjmy8lkxOq%2FdEvXEiVHHJjKp9qcMoytely0luLSqPQDgrhWQqY55nhgDgLEPkInMta4gIF%2FQDDi0MC1EMcE6XdVsWwYsBuQJ6v1Os2V9QoSHq3zeQVOplcBL8t1ishWatVkYyk6IqPqa2iYbsESIogv8sFzDms9TvvIaMsLL6F49vMeAYeX6h94%2FpuYLidYuNiwVo1XdHKVuScZ4YwPYrMSHGZt8FnlB7ACsIB5q4sGvYCGnXCGEoUdJxAlO%2FKjCWkfEmWy1OjJYdDxV3Ziwz51CcmiszDGMYYafFMF2xN50YBhftalu4MQg6mRySW52xHD3nln2KrJTXky%2Fj4ssHG%2BzFgQUXI9iQuGbWXVWjjNHddtqwms1DuB3Q7ntw%3D%3D>
This is certainly an eye opening thread (and yes, thank you for sharing your insights for those of you with experience in these matters.)
On a side note, my personal experience with Chase many years ago following a simple divorce and the number of simple but stupid errors they made and snafus they created (for themselves and for us) --- it was like they had never had account holders get divorced before. It was a circus, and so unnecessary. I left Chase shortly after and for all these years since have been so glad I did!
I can't imagine being paycheck to paycheck and having to rely on money that you suddenly, through no cause of your own, don't have access to any more!
Uggghhh. Go, attorneys!
Heather
Heather Pearce Campbell (she / her)
Pearce Law, PLLC | c: 206.395.5878
Web: http://www.pearcelawservices.com
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On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 10:28 AM Joshua McKarcher <josh at mckarcherlaw.com<mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>> wrote:
I assume I speak for hundreds of us when I say thank you for these two posts. To say that our world has gotten more complicated than it was even 4 years ago and 10 years ago much less 20 years ago is an understatement. Your two posts are invaluable and incredibly generous. Best, Josh
Joshua D. McKarcher
McKarcher Law PLLC
537 6th Street
Clarkston, WA 99403
(509) 758-3345
(509) 758-3314 (fax)
josh at mckarcherlaw.com<mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
www.mckarcherlaw.com<http://www.mckarcherlaw.com>
________________________________
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> on behalf of Katie Smith Patel <katie at paracletelaw.com<mailto:katie at paracletelaw.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2023 3:31:36 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
Yes, it is all happening in a black box within the bank, and a lot of times, the bank employees outside of the fraud/AML compliance unit have no idea what is going on, only that they aren’t allowed to tell the customer anything. Super helpful. Even when I left my compliance counsel role in 2019, the caseload for our financial crimes unit was impossibly high, and it was getting higher all the time. I can’t imagine any banks are doing this well, and the regulatory fines for not looking closely enough are huge.
Another wrinkle I forgot to mention, is that within the “financial crimes” umbrella at financial institutions lies OFAC (Office of Foreign Assets Control) and similar sanctions lists (operate like no-fly lists). If something odd is going on with a client’s account, I have also seen where some very common names might be listed on OFAC or another sanctions list, or they might have a name similar to someone in a political role who would be at high risk for bribery or other financial crime (PEP = politically exposed person). These will all trigger big alerts. I once helped a customer from suburban Houston fill out an application to get his frozen retirement accounts back from OFAC by explaining he (obviously) was not a brigadier general of the Venezuelan army in spite of having the same common name as someone who was. If I hadn’t been there to do his application, he probably would have been told nothing and had his retirement accounts frozen indefinitely. It’s easy to search OFAC online – you just go to OFAC’s website - though there are dozens of other lists from other governments also (with a lot of crossover with OFAC), along with PEPs. People with common Spanish names are at risk of being confused with common names on drug cartel OFAC lists, and as new names get added all the time, they might not know it until they try to open their next financial account.
On Wendy’s original comment that the treatment may be race-based, while I don’t know the circumstances, based on my experiences, this is often a legitimate concern. I had to guide financial crimes analysts away from filing suspicious activity reports with FinCEN purely based on things like being Mexican and having a lot of money. Again, there would be no recourse because they are prohibited from telling you they filed anything. You should absolutely raise any suspicions of bias with those in higher positions at the institution, because that absolutely may be happening.
Katie Patel
Paraclete Estate Planning, LLC
(323) 356-4886
112 Genessee Street
Medford, OR 97504
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Bruce Moen
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2023 2:22 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
Thank you for this.
I have a new hire from out of town who opened a new local account. Modest deposit and frozen one week later. The bank refused to provide any information whatever. The bank reported only that the freeze would last for two months and then the bank would report further.
I had never heard of such a thing and then learned about the “alerts” that you describe below and how the hands of the bank are tied by federal law.
This could happen to anyone and with no apparent recourse. Devastating for a person with only one bank account and living paycheck to paycheck.
Good practical advice from you.
Thanks again,
Bruce
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Katie Smith Patel
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2023 1:49 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
Send a cordial, brief email to this address:
peter.j.neilson at jpmchase.com<mailto:peter.j.neilson at jpmchase.com>
Peter Neilson is the global head of financial crimes for Chase Bank. Title your email subject line, “Complaint” or somewhere prominently use the word “complaint” specifically to trigger statutory complaint handling processes. Explain briefly that you believe that their fraud or anti-money laundering controls have failed.
Something similar happened to me with Chase Bank a few years ago. I emailed Peter Neilson and I imagine he forwarded it down the chain until it got to someone who gasped, “this came from… PETER!” and immediately acted on it. My husband had just opened our account with his contact information, and yet I am the one who received an apologetic call 2 days after my email that everything was henceforth fixed.
Ironically, I used to work in anti-money laundering and fraud compliance. Large financial institutions have a lot of behind-the-scenes and automated processes to handle the large volume of potential suspicious activity. I perceived that Chase’s anti-money laundering alert reviews are handled off shore in countries with cheaper, but not necessarily better, labor. Anti-money laundering regulations will prohibit them from telling you what their suspicions are based on whatever alert was triggered. What will happen is an alert is triggered based on whatever parameters are set, someone off shore reviews it but doesn’t do their job properly and the next thing you know, your account is frozen and they can’t tell you anything about why, leaving you helpless with no channels for recourse. Chase’s alert threshold seems to be set very low. All we did was transfer $100 into the account twice and they froze the account and wouldn’t tell us why. Fortunately I knew: somebody incompetent skipped through their alerts that day.
Getting someone higher up to pass it down to them worked for me; hopefully it will work for your client.
Best of luck, and I am happy to help answer any additional questions that arise as you try to resolve this.
Katie Patel
Paraclete Estate Planning, LLC
(323) 356-4886
112 Genessee Street
Medford, OR 97504
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Joshua McKarcher
Sent: Monday, July 17, 2023 11:30 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
I have precisely one contact at a Chase branch who has proven heroic . . . but three years ago. If she replies to my email, she would do whatever she would be able to do, if anything. I’m so sorry for what I’m reading below; it just shouldn’t “be like this,” but somehow it is. For whatever it’s worth, I had a PR client deposit also a CASHIER’S CHECK from Wells Fargo to fund a new estate account at US BANK, and the latter put a 5-day hold on the new account as well. Here I thought certified funds were basically as good as wired funds, but silly me, no. They would not even call the branch – both are in our small area here, mere miles apart – and confirm funds or any of that stuff from “the old days.” Such is our world, even in the age of e-checks and instant verification of accounts via Plaid and “all of it.” Alas . . .
Best, Josh
Joshua D. McKarcher
McKarcher Law PLLC
537 6th Street
Clarkston, WA 99403
(509) 758-3345
(509) 758-3314 (fax)
josh at mckarcherlaw.com<mailto:josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
www.mckarcherlaw.com<http://www.mckarcherlaw.com/>
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Goffe, Wendy S.
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2023 1:39 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
I am trying to help a retired professor from the University of Washington. He is elderly and the treatment he has received from Chase is absolutely appalling and likely race based. He opened an account in Normandy Park, closed his credit union account, and deposited a cashier’s check into the new Chase Account. He wrote a few checks, all of which bounced and was told there was a 2 week hold on his account because of the appearance of possible fraud. At the end of 2 weeks re re-wrote the checks and they again bounced. He was told they extended the hold for 2 more weeks. He is in the middle of a remodel and can’t pay the people he has hired. They have stopped work. He has never bounced a check in his life and is beside himself.
He called the escalation unit and they sent it back to the branch. Does anyone know a person I can call who might be able to straighten this out?
Thank you,
Wendy
Wendy S. Goffe (she/her/hers) | Partner
STOEL RIVES LLP | 600 University Street, Suite 3600 | Seattle, WA 98101
Direct: (206) 386-7565
wendy.goffe at stoel.com<mailto:wendy.goffe at stoel.com> | Bio<https://www.stoel.com/people/wendy-s-goffe> | vCard<https://www.stoel.com/getmedia/b93218d6-42f6-4194-bcea-d870a37fe5f8/VcardGoffe?ext=.vcf> | www.stoel.com<https://www.stoel.com>
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