[WSBAPT] Chase Bank

Tue Jul 18 22:32:35 PDT 2023

This is certainly an eye opening thread (and yes, thank you for sharing
your insights for those of you with experience in these matters.)

On a side note, my personal experience with Chase many years ago following
a simple divorce and the number of simple but stupid errors they made and
snafus they created (for themselves and for us) --- it was like they had
never had account holders get divorced before. It was a circus, and so
unnecessary. I left Chase shortly after and for all these years since have
been so glad I did!

I can't imagine being paycheck to paycheck and having to rely on money that
you suddenly, through no cause of your own, don't have access to any more!

Uggghhh. Go, attorneys!

Heather

*Heather Pearce Campbell **(she / her)*
*Pearce Law, PLLC *| c: 206.395.5878
Web: http://www.pearcelawservices.com

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On Tue, Jul 18, 2023 at 10:28 AM Joshua McKarcher <josh at mckarcherlaw.com>
wrote:

> I assume I speak for hundreds of us when I say thank you for these two
> posts. To say that our world has gotten more complicated than it was even 4
> years ago and 10 years ago much less 20 years ago is an understatement.
> Your two posts are invaluable and incredibly generous. Best, Josh
>
> Joshua D. McKarcher
> McKarcher Law PLLC
> 537 6th Street
> Clarkston, WA 99403
> (509) 758-3345
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com
> www.mckarcherlaw.com
> ------------------------------
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Katie Smith Patel <
> katie at paracletelaw.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2023 3:31:36 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
>
>
> Yes, it is all happening in a black box within the bank, and a lot of
> times, the bank employees outside of the fraud/AML compliance unit have no
> idea what is going on, only that they aren’t allowed to tell the customer
> anything.  Super helpful.  Even when I left my compliance counsel role in
> 2019, the caseload for our financial crimes unit was impossibly high, and
> it was getting higher all the time.  I can’t imagine any banks are doing
> this well, and the regulatory fines for not looking closely enough are huge.
>
>
>
> Another wrinkle I forgot to mention, is that within the “financial crimes”
> umbrella at financial institutions lies OFAC (Office of Foreign Assets
> Control) and similar sanctions lists (operate like no-fly lists).  If
> something odd is going on with a client’s account, I have also seen where
> some very common names might be listed on OFAC or another sanctions list,
> or they might have a name similar to someone in a political role who would
> be at high risk for bribery or other financial crime (PEP  = politically
> exposed person).  These will all trigger big alerts.  I once helped a
> customer from suburban Houston fill out an application to get his frozen
> retirement accounts back from OFAC by explaining he (obviously) was not a
> brigadier general of the Venezuelan army in spite of having the same common
> name as someone who was.  If I hadn’t been there to do his application, he
> probably would have been told nothing and had his retirement accounts
> frozen indefinitely.  It’s easy to search OFAC online – you just go to
> OFAC’s website - though there are dozens of other lists from other
> governments also (with a lot of crossover with OFAC), along with PEPs.
> People with common Spanish names are at risk of being confused with common
> names on drug cartel OFAC lists, and as new names get added all the time,
> they might not know it until they try to open their next financial account.
>
>
>
> On Wendy’s original comment that the treatment may be race-based, while I
> don’t know the circumstances, based on my experiences, this is often a
> legitimate concern.  I had to guide financial crimes analysts away from
> filing suspicious activity reports with FinCEN purely based on things like
> being Mexican and having a lot of money.  Again, there would be no recourse
> because they are prohibited from telling you they filed anything.  You
> should absolutely raise any suspicions of bias with those in higher
> positions at the institution, because that absolutely may be happening.
>
>
>
> Katie Patel
>
> Paraclete Estate Planning, LLC
>
> (323) 356-4886
>
> 112 Genessee Street
>
> Medford, OR 97504
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Bruce Moen
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2023 2:22 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
>
>
>
> Thank you for this.
>
>
>
> I have a new hire from out of town who opened a new local account.  Modest
> deposit and frozen one week later. The bank refused to provide any
> information whatever. The bank reported only that the freeze would last for
> two months and then the bank would report further.
>
>
>
> I had never heard of such a thing and then learned about the “alerts” that
> you describe below and how the hands of the bank are tied by federal law.
>
>
>
> This could happen to anyone and with no apparent recourse. Devastating for
> a person with only one bank account and living paycheck to paycheck.
>
>
>
> Good practical advice from you.
>
>
>
> Thanks again,
>
>
>
>   Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Katie Smith Patel
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2023 1:49 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
>
>
>
> Send a cordial, brief email to this address:
>
>
>
> peter.j.neilson at jpmchase.com
>
>
>
> Peter Neilson is the global head of financial crimes for Chase Bank.
> Title your email subject line, “Complaint” or somewhere prominently use the
> word “complaint” specifically to trigger statutory complaint handling
> processes.  Explain briefly that you believe that their fraud or anti-money
> laundering controls have failed.
>
>
>
> Something similar happened to me with Chase Bank a few years ago.  I
> emailed Peter Neilson and I imagine he forwarded it down the chain until it
> got to someone who gasped, “this came from… PETER!” and immediately acted
> on it.  My husband had just opened our account with his contact
> information, and yet I am the one who received an apologetic call 2 days
> after my email that everything was henceforth fixed.
>
>
>
> Ironically, I used to work in anti-money laundering and fraud compliance.
> Large financial institutions have a lot of behind-the-scenes and automated
> processes to handle the large volume of potential suspicious activity.  I
> perceived that Chase’s anti-money laundering alert reviews are handled off
> shore in countries with cheaper, but not necessarily better, labor.
> Anti-money laundering regulations will prohibit them from telling you what
> their suspicions are based on whatever alert was triggered.  What will
> happen is an alert is triggered based on whatever parameters are set,
> someone off shore reviews it but doesn’t do their job properly and the next
> thing you know, your account is frozen and they can’t tell you anything
> about why, leaving you helpless with no channels for recourse.  Chase’s
> alert threshold seems to be set very low.  All we did was transfer $100
> into the account twice and they froze the account and wouldn’t tell us
> why.  Fortunately I knew:  somebody incompetent skipped through their
> alerts that day.
>
>
>
> Getting someone higher up to pass it down to them worked for me; hopefully
> it will work for your client.
>
>
>
> Best of luck, and I am happy to help answer any additional questions that
> arise as you try to resolve this.
>
>
>
> Katie Patel
>
> Paraclete Estate Planning, LLC
>
> (323) 356-4886
>
> 112 Genessee Street
>
> Medford, OR 97504
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Joshua McKarcher
> *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2023 11:30 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
>
>
>
> I have precisely one contact at a Chase branch who has proven heroic . . .
> but three years ago. If she replies to my email, she would do whatever she
> would be able to do, if anything. I’m so sorry for what I’m reading below;
> it just shouldn’t “be like this,” but somehow it is. For whatever it’s
> worth, I had a PR client deposit also a CASHIER’S CHECK from Wells Fargo to
> fund a new estate account at US BANK, and the latter put a 5-day hold on
> the new account as well. Here I thought certified funds were basically as
> good as wired funds, but silly me, no. They would not even call the branch
> – both are in our small area here, mere miles apart – and confirm funds or
> any of that stuff from “the old days.” Such is our world, even in the age
> of e-checks and instant verification of accounts via Plaid and “all of it.”
> Alas . . .
>
>
>
> Best, Josh
>
>
>
> Joshua D. McKarcher
>
> McKarcher Law PLLC
>
> 537 6th Street
>
> Clarkston, WA 99403
>
> (509) 758-3345
>
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
>
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com
>
> www.mckarcherlaw.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Goffe, Wendy S.
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 15, 2023 1:39 PM
> *To:* wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
> *Subject:* [WSBAPT] Chase Bank
>
>
>
> I am trying to help a retired professor from the University of
> Washington.  He is elderly and the treatment he has received from Chase is
> absolutely appalling and likely race based.  He opened an account in
> Normandy Park, closed his credit union account, and deposited a cashier’s
> check into the new Chase Account.  He wrote a few checks, all of which
> bounced and was told there was a 2 week hold on his account because of the
> appearance of possible fraud.  At the end of 2 weeks re re-wrote the checks
> and they again bounced.  He was told they extended the hold for 2 more
> weeks.  He is in the middle of a remodel and can’t pay the people he has
> hired.  They have stopped work.  He has never bounced a check in his life
> and is beside himself.
>
>
>
> He called the escalation unit and they sent it back to the branch.  Does
> anyone know a person I can call who might be able to straighten this out?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Wendy
>
>
>
> *Wendy S. Goffe *(she/her/hers) | Partner
> *STOEL RIVES LLP* | 600 University Street, Suite 3600 | Seattle, WA 98101
> Direct: (206) 386-7565
> wendy.goffe at stoel.com | Bio <https://www.stoel.com/people/wendy-s-goffe>
>  | vCard
> <https://www.stoel.com/getmedia/b93218d6-42f6-4194-bcea-d870a37fe5f8/VcardGoffe?ext=.vcf> |
> www.stoel.com
>
>
>
>
>
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