[WSBAPT] Part of the Gross Taxable Estate?

Tue Oct 4 08:31:30 PDT 2022

Thank you to everyone who responded.

To just follow-up on the discussion of what they are supposed to do - if
the entity - let's just call it Charles Schwab for the sake of this
discussion - does not provide a disclosure to the PR about a final date of
death valuation or even the existence of who the beneficiaries are - how
would a PR know to include it in the tax reporting?

I have a case in the past where the PR was not a family member and the
Decedent had an overpayment from Social Security but though they had been
friends the decedent never talked about getting caught taking money they
weren't entitled to and thus have a $30k repayment plan with Social
Security.....and they came forward after the probate was closed seeking
repayment and we had to claw the money back from the siblings.

Any tips on how to avoid situations like this?

*Brent Williams-Ruth* (pronouns: he/him)
*Attorney-At-Law*

*Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, **a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC*

*Physical Address: 500 S 336th Street, Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003*

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e-mail <Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website
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On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 12:15 AM Philip N. Jones <pjones at duffykekel.com>
wrote:

> I think the PR will have difficulty getting information about the IRA
> directly from the IRA custodian (the financial institution), since the IRA
> now belongs to the beneficiaries.  It does not belong to the PR.  The
> beneficiaries are now the only people to whom the custodian will release
> information regarding the account.  But perhaps the PR can find a copy of
> the monthly statement for the month of death and use that statement to
> prepare the estate tax return without obtaining any additional information
> from the custodian.
> Sone custodians are more lax in this department and will release
> information, but they really aren’t supposed to.  For example, if the IRA
> is one of several accounts held on the date of death by the decedent in a
> master umbrella account, sone financial institutions will give the PR a
> copy of the entire statement, without stopping to think that the PR doesn’t
> really own the IRA.  The beneficiaries do.  In Brent’s case, the financial
> institution disclosed the brokerage account, but not the IRA.  That is
> exactly how it is supposed to be done. The financial institution did it
> right.
> Phil Jones
>
> Philip N. Jones
> Duffy Kekel LLP
> Portland, OR
> pjones at duffykekel.com
> (503) 853-1482 cell
>
> On Oct 4, 2022, at 1:37 AM, Heather de Vrieze <heatherd at westseattlelaw.com>
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> Yes, part of GTE.
>
>
>
> No, distributing it outside of probate does not remove it from the taxable
> estate.
>
>
>
> Personal Representative should be able to get info, though you might need
> to send a letter explaining this.
>
>
>
> Heather
>
>
>
> Heather S. de Vrieze
> *Attorney-at-Law*
>
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> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Brent Williams-Ruth
> *Sent:* Monday, October 3, 2022 5:19 PM
> *To:* wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
> *Subject:* [WSBAPT] Part of the Gross Taxable Estate?
>
>
>
> Greetings List -
>
>
>
> Have a probate where Decedent set up beneficiary for his brokerage and his
> traditional IRA. The brokerage house disclosed the brokerage distribution
> but did not disclose the IRA. In a conversation with Executor believe each
> residual beneficiary received the same amount. If this is true - the estate
> would surpass the Washington estate tax threshold - if a traditional IRA
> transferred through beneficiary is counted as part of the GTE.
>
>
>
> Simply by distributing outside of probate does not remove it from the
> gross taxable estate, correct?
>
>
>
> *Brent Williams-Ruth*
> *Attorney-At-Law*
>
> *Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC*
>
> Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751
>
> Direct: (253) 285-7453
>
> 500 S. 336th St., Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003
>
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