<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Thank you to everyone who responded. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">To just follow-up on the discussion of what they are supposed to do - if the entity - let's just call it Charles Schwab for the sake of this discussion - does not provide a disclosure to the PR about a final date of death valuation or even the existence of who the beneficiaries are - how would a PR know to include it in the tax reporting?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">I have a case in the past where the PR was not a family member and the Decedent had an overpayment from Social Security but though they had been friends the decedent never talked about getting caught taking money they weren't entitled to and thus have a $30k repayment plan with Social Security.....and they came forward after the probate was closed seeking repayment and we had to claw the money back from the siblings. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif">Any tips on how to avoid situations like this? </div><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Brent
Williams-Ruth</span></b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> (pronouns: he/him)<br>
<i>Attorney-At-Law</i></span></p><p><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Law
Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, </span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><font size="1">a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC</font></span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></b></p><p><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Physical Address: 500 S 336th Street, Suite 214; Federal
Way, WA 98003</span></b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p><p><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><font color="#ff0000">**EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY**</font> All mail sent through the USPS should be sent to the following address: </span></b><b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">PO BOX 3319; Federal Way, WA 98063 </span></b></p><p><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Office/Scheduling
Phone:<span style="color:#004080"> </span><font color="#ff0000">(253) 285-7751</font></span></p><p><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Direct:<font color="#ff0000"> (253) 285-7453</font></span></p><p>
</p><p><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="mailto:Brent@Williams-RuthLaw.com" target="_blank">e-mail</a> / <a href="http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/" target="_blank">website</a> /</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> </span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><a href="http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9.5pt">facebook</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"> / </span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"></span></p></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 12:15 AM Philip N. Jones <<a href="mailto:pjones@duffykekel.com">pjones@duffykekel.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
I think the PR will have difficulty getting information about the IRA directly from the IRA custodian (the financial institution), since the IRA now belongs to the beneficiaries. It does not belong to the PR. The beneficiaries are now the only people to whom
the custodian will release information regarding the account. But perhaps the PR can find a copy of the monthly statement for the month of death and use that statement to prepare the estate tax return without obtaining any additional information from the
custodian.
<div>Sone custodians are more lax in this department and will release information, but they really aren’t supposed to. For example, if the IRA is one of several accounts held on the date of death by the decedent in a master umbrella account, sone financial
institutions will give the PR a copy of the entire statement, without stopping to think that the PR doesn’t really own the IRA. The beneficiaries do. In Brent’s case, the financial institution disclosed the brokerage account, but not the IRA. That is exactly
how it is supposed to be done. The financial institution did it right.<br>
<div>
<div>Phil Jones<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">Philip N. Jones
<div>Duffy Kekel LLP</div>
<div>Portland, OR</div>
<div><a href="mailto:pjones@duffykekel.com" target="_blank">pjones@duffykekel.com</a></div>
<div>(503) 853-1482 cell</div>
</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
<blockquote type="cite">On Oct 4, 2022, at 1:37 AM, Heather de Vrieze <<a href="mailto:heatherd@westseattlelaw.com" target="_blank">heatherd@westseattlelaw.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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<blockquote type="cite">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">Yes, part of GTE.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">No, distributing it outside of probate does not remove it from the taxable estate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">Personal Representative should be able to get info, though you might need to send a letter explaining this.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt">Heather<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16pt;font-family:"Vladimir Script";color:rgb(31,73,125)">Heather S. de Vrieze</span><b><span style="font-size:16pt;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><br>
</span></b><i><span style="font-family:Garamond,serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Attorney-at-Law<u></u><u></u></span></i></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Brent Williams-Ruth<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 3, 2022 5:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com" target="_blank">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [WSBAPT] Part of the Gross Taxable Estate?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Greetings List - <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Have a probate where Decedent set up beneficiary for his brokerage and his traditional IRA. The brokerage house disclosed the brokerage distribution but did not disclose the IRA. In a conversation with Executor believe each residual beneficiary
received the same amount. If this is true - the estate would surpass the Washington estate tax threshold - if a traditional IRA transferred through beneficiary is counted as part of the GTE. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Simply by distributing outside of probate does not remove it from the gross taxable estate, correct?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p><b>Brent Williams-Ruth</b> <br>
<i>Attorney-At-Law</i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p><b>Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>Direct: (253) 285-7453<u></u><u></u></p>
<p>500 S. 336th St., Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p><b>As of July 1, 2019 - I began operating as the Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC. Please note the new points of contact <a href="mailto:Brent@Williams-RuthLaw.com" target="_blank">Brent@Williams-RuthLaw.com</a> and <a href="https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.williams-ruthlaw.com%2F&data=05%7C01%7Cpjones%40duffykekel.com%7Ca61ff5b60a7244a7141508daa5a09e72%7C2d66ed5354fa4c2f8c4dbff1aca5479d%7C0%7C0%7C638004406526709831%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=2ODkuPZAjDLGdozdd4ZdCfXK1Ani%2Bj1mRLM5qi8kGak%3D&reserved=0" target="_blank">www.Williams-RuthLaw.com</a> </b><u></u><u></u></p>
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