[WSBAPT] Spying on Conversation
Andrekita Silva
ak at seattle-silvalaw.com
Thu Jul 29 20:22:48 PDT 2021
Law Office of
F.ANDREKITA SILVA
____________________________________________
July 29, 2021
Brent,
You say that the Executor doesn’t want you to call the police about
this spying.
How does the executor feel about the recordings? Do they feel violated
or do they feel okay about it, even though not done with their
permission?
Are you concerned for the invasion of YOUR privacy or are you
concerned for the invasion of EXECUTOR’s privacy? Or for the content
of the attorney client conversation?
How did you secure the access to the cameras to view the recording of
your private conversation?
Was this access to the recording you viewed given by the Executor or
by the person who installed the cameras?
Have you spoken to the person who installed the cameras? Do you think
their motivation is inappropriate? Do you think the installer
understood it is unlawful in Washington to record a private
conversation without the consent of participants?
The Executor said s/he hadn’t shared the conversation with the
installer. Would the Executor have shared the conversation with the
installer but they didn’t get around to it because installer wrote to
you first? Do you think your client/ Executor was being
straightforward with you about what they knew or didn't know? If
installer had asked Executor to let him/her sit in on the attorney /
client meeting, would Executor have asked you to let the installer
join you? Would you have said yes, no, maybe for part?
I think your role is certainly to educate. If Executor would have
shared the conversation anyway, you may need to explain attorney
client privilege to the Executor and let them know that this is for
their protection. Was there information discussed in that recording
that was really sensitive that you really would not have wanted to
have disclosed to a third party without a lot more discussion with
Executor?
It’s hard, and at times unrealistic, to prevent client’s from sharing
confidential communications. You can speak to the Executor/ family?
and make sure that they understand what is going on- where the cameras
are, what’s being recorded, who has access, etc. But, if the executor
is not disabled or incompetent, it’s up to the family to decide
whether they want to remove the audio/ video equipment. The family
should probably know that they have an obligation to tell all guests
that their actions/ conversations in the home are not private.
In terms of the attorney / client relationship, this may mean that you
will have to meet with the Executor somewhere in the home that is not
being recorded, or meet with them somewhere else.
Other than the fact that YOUR privacy was invaded- and you need to
decide what to do about that- the rest isn’t that different than
other clients that do things that are against their interest. For
example, you might represent a battered spouse/victim whose aggressor
spouse constantly violates a restraining and/ or DV order but your
battered client refuses to take action. You can say “if you continue
to do XYZ, I’ll have to withdraw”. But you can't MAKE them take
certain steps.
It is a crime to record a private conversation. You certainly had an
expectation of privacy. So, you can decide what you want to do about
that based on the facts and circumstances. If the installer were a
person with an adverse interest, and they were using this recording to
gain an advantage in litigation, I would urge client to report this to
law enforcement. ( I have had a client report such recordings to law
enforcement upon my advice and I have brought this to the attention of
the court where the no- longer- in- the-home-spouse plants a recording
device, and BOTH law enforcement and judge yawned. I would do this
again, though. ) Unless a client is at imminent risk of harm, for
myself I would stick to educating the client. If someone unlawfully
records something to gain an advantage in litigation, I would bring it
to the attention of the court and have the recording and evidence that
flowed from it stricken.
andrekita
Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
1325 Fourth Avenue, Suite 2000
Seattle, Washington 98101
206-224-8288
www.seattle-silvalaw.com
Quoting Brent Williams-Ruth <brent at williams-ruthlaw.com>:
> Thank you for everyone who has responded. Allow me to give more context.
> 1) The Executor is not a vulnerable adult other than they lost
> their spouse and have no children.
> 2) This is a huge cultural thing in that the extended family have
> stepped in to assist and take care of each other
> 3) The Executor knew that a "security system" was installed after
> Decedent's passing for their safety and security. What they did NOT
> know is who has access to it AND that it records audio conversation.
> 4) The Executor does NOT want me to call the police on their family member
> 5) Decedent died 2 years ago - the criminal violation (a gross
> misdemeanor) would be literally for EVERYONE who has come into that
> house over the last two years. I agree though, with the COVID
> backlog, there will be no criminal actions and the problem with
> civil claims would be what is the damage that I have suffered other
> than being extremely irritated that this family member has spied on
> their relative for two years?
>
> I am not certain what I will do. Right now, I am thinking about
> using the legal aspect as leverage for the family member to come and
> remove the Security/AV recording devices and make them pay for a
> third party security system to be installed where the Executor is
> trained on how to use it for their own protection. I will also
> confess that this has caused many feelings. I know that Siri/Alexa
> are listening - proof is simply the advertisements that show up in
> Facebook after I have talked about my desire to scuba dive
> Fiji....amazing how the Fiji vacation packages are everywhere. I
> guess that knowing that a specific person is behind a camera and not
> just a nameless/faceless corporation and their capitalistic
> intentions hits on an entirely different level.
>
> Appreciate the validation that this IS NOT OK.
> Brent
>
> BRENT WILLIAMS-RUTH (preferred pronoun: he/him)
> /Attorney-At-Law/
>
> LAW OFFICES OF BRENT WILLIAMS-RUTH, A DIVISION OF BWR CONSULTING, PLLC
>
> PHYSICAL ADDRESS: 500 S 336TH STREET, SUITE 214; FEDERAL WAY, WA 98003
>
> **EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY** ALL MAIL SENT THROUGH THE USPS
> SHOULD BE SENT TO THE FOLLOWING ADDRESS: PO BOX 3319; FEDERAL WAY,
> WA 98063
>
> Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751
>
> Direct: (253) 285-7453
>
>
>
> e-mail[1] / website[2] / facebook[3] /
>
> On Thu, Jul 29, 2021 at 12:24 PM James W. Spencer
> <jamess at brothershenderson.com> wrote:
>
>> Brent:
>>
>> ___ ___
>>
>> ____Wow. That’s a new one for me too. I would call the police
>> but expect the “this is really a civil matter” response (even
>> though it is not). Seems like a protective/restraining order of
>> some sort could be useful as well.____
>>
>> _______ _______
>>
>> ________Please let us know how this plays out!________
>>
>> ___________ ___________
>>
>> ____________Best wishes,____________
>>
>> ______________James______________
>>
>> _________________ _________________
>>
>> __________________James W. Spencer__________________
>>
>> ____________________Attorney at Law____________________
>>
>> ______________________/Due to COVID-19, I am working
>> remotely and our office is running on reduced staff. We are taking
>> in-person meetings only in limited circumstances. During this time,
>> please expect some delays in response time. Thank you for your
>> patience./______________________
>>
>> ________________________Brothers & Henderson,
>> P.S.________________________
>>
>> __________________________2722 Eastlake Avenue East, Suite
>> 200__________________________
>>
>> ____________________________Seattle, Washington
>> 98102____________________________
>>
>> ______________________________Phone: (206) 324-4300
>> x106______________________________
>>
>> ________________________________Fax: (206)
>> 324-3106________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________e-mail:
>> jamess at brothershenderson.com[4]__________________________________
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________www.brothershenderson.com[5]____________________________________
>>
>> ______________________________________pronouns:
>> he/him______________________________________
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________ _________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>> ____________________________________________The information
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>> ______________________ ______________________
>>
>> _______________________FROM:
>> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
>> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ON BEHALF OF Josh Grant
>> SENT: Thursday, July 29, 2021 11:34 AM
>> TO: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> SUBJECT: Re: [WSBAPT] Spying on Conversation_______________________
>>
>> __________________________ __________________________
>>
>> ___________________________ ___________________________
>>
>>
>> _____________________________It is a criminal violation in
>> Washington State to tape without consent. I would call the
>> police._____________________________
>>
>>
>> _______________________________JOSHUA F. GRANT
>>
>> P. O. Box 619
>> Wilbur, WA 99185
>> 509 647 5578_______________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> _________________________________ _________________________________
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________FROM: Diane J. Kiepe
>> ___________________________________
>>
>>
>> _____________________________________SENT: Thursday,
>> July 29, 2021 11:23 AM_____________________________________
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________TO: WSBA Probate
>> & Trust Listserv _______________________________________
>>
>>
>> _________________________________________SUBJECT: Re:
>> [WSBAPT] Spying on
>> Conversation_________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________ ____________________________________
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________Just when I think I
>> have seen it all…….I have no good thoughts but would love to hear
>> how things shake out. Please let us know if your time allows as it
>> goes forward.____________________________________
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________ ______________________________________
>>
>> ________________________________________/Diane J.
>> Kiepe/________________________________________
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________ __________________________________________
>>
>> ____________________________________________Diane J.
>> Kiepe____________________________________________
>>
>> ______________________________________________Douglas
>> Eden______________________________________________
>>
>> ________________________________________________717 W.
>> Sprague Ave.________________________________________________
>>
>> __________________________________________________Suite
>> 1500__________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________Spokane, WA
>> 99201____________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________djkiepe at depdslaw.com______________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________509-455-5300________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________FROM:
>> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
>> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> ON BEHALF OF Brent Williams-Ruth
>> SENT: Thursday, July 29, 2021 11:03 AM
>> TO: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>> SUBJECT: [WSBAPT] Spying on
>> Conversation____________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________Greetings
>> List -
>> ________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________I just
>> had a non-beneficiary family member send me an email detailing his
>> rebuttal and defense to a conversation that I had with an Executor
>> in their own home. I reached out to my Executor and asked if she
>> had spoken with this person - they said no.
>> ____________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________What we have a situation where I traveled to the Executor's home and the conversation - without my knowledge or consent - was recorded in both video (which I saw) but also audio. It is clear that this family member has set up a comprehensive recording system in the Executor's home without even having their knowledge or consent.
>> ________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________________ __________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________Any advice (other than call the
>> police)?____________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________________Brent________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________________________BRENT WILLIAMS-RUTH (preferred pronoun:
>> he/him)
>> /Attorney-At-Law/__________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________LAW OFFICES OF BRENT WILLIAMS-RUTH, A DIVISION OF BWR CONSULTING,
>> PLLC____________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________________PHYSICAL ADDRESS: 500 S 336TH STREET, SUITE 214; FEDERAL WAY, WA
>> 98003______________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ________________________________________________________________________________________**EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY** ALL MAIL SENT THROUGH THE USPS SHOULD BE SENT TO THE FOLLOWING ADDRESS: PO BOX 3319; FEDERAL WAY, WA 98063
>> ________________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________________________________Office/Scheduling Phone: (253)
>> 285-7751__________________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ____________________________________________________________________________________________Direct: (253)
>> 285-7453____________________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________________________________________e-mail / website[2] / facebook[3] /
>> ______________________________________________________________________________________________
>>
>>
>> -------------------------
>>
>>
>> ___________________________________________________________________***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
>> others.***
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Links:
------
[1] mailto:Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com
[2] http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/
[3] http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw
[4] mailto:jamess at brothershenderson.com
[5] http://www.brothershenderson.com/
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