[WSBAPT] Student Loans

[Brent Williams-Ruth]

I want to weigh in on just the topic of electronic billing.

Presently, I am having to take over my mother's affairs since April and the
fact that she had gone to so many automatic payments - some directly from a
bank account, some to pay-pal that then charged to a credit card - it has
been a nightmare trying to get in front of everything.

I don't know how they may change the creditor statute but I know that I
will fight tooth and nail against simply making a PR obtain access to
someone's email account.  Yes, we do have the Uniform Access to Digital
Assets Act - but it is completely toothless and the tech companies (one of
who I did a tango with a couple years ago) don't staff a department who's
purpose is responding to requests from Executors.  Simply presuming that
someone will have access forgets that the vast majority of all these online
platforms have terms and conditions that make it illegal for anyone to
access someone else's account without proper authorization.  It will be
interesting to see if the Terms and Conditions will change because simply
being the Executor of the Estate did not move this one tech company to
assist; I had to obtain the Court order and then, even though the statute
said that they MUST RESPOND within 45 days, it took six and a half months.

Sorry to pivot the conversation a little - but wanted to just weigh in on
this.  I will finish by saying that I have strongly encouraged all my
clients to return to paper billing, even if it costs $1.00 per month to
receive those statements.

*Brent Williams-Ruth* (preferred pronoun: he/him)
*Attorney-At-Law*

*Law Offices of Brent Williams-Ruth, **a division of BWR Consulting, PLLC*

*Physical Address: 500 S 336th Street, Suite 214; Federal Way, WA 98003*

***EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY** All mail sent through the USPS should be sent to
the following address: **PO BOX 3319; Federal Way, WA 98063 *

Office/Scheduling Phone: (253) 285-7751

Direct: (253) 285-7453

e-mail <Brent at Williams-RuthLaw.com> / website
<http://www.williams-ruthlaw.com/> / facebook
<http://www.facebook.com/bwrlaw> /


On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 12:15 PM Amy Goertz <amyjgoertz at icloud.com> wrote:

> Elizabeth, that is an excellent point that the private lenders did not hit
> pause during the pandemic.
>
> That may just solve my issue without pulling a credit report, because I
> was told by Student Loan Aid that the federal loans would be discharged
> upon sending a death certificate and request.
>
> Thus, the private lenders would have sent something in some way in the
> past seven months since her death, and the non-private loans will be
> discharged. Let me know if you think this doesn’t cover it.
>
> Thanks to all who contributed to the conversation. This was very helpful.
>
>
>
> *Amy*
>
> *Amy J. Goertz, J.D.*
> *Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC*
> amyjgoertz at icloud.com
>
> 1.888.926.2607 phone
> 1.877.684.1627 fax
>
> Address for correspondence:
> 2829 S. Grand Blvd., Suite 303
> Spokane, WA 99203
>
> Additional office locations:
> 510 Bell Street
> Edmonds, WA 98020
>
> Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC
> www.goertzlambrecht.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 28, 2021, at 11:37 AM, Heather de Vrieze <
> heatherd at westseattlelaw.com> wrote:
>
> Do deceased individuals have credit scores? I have had creditors threaten
> me that non-payment would impact credit, to which my response is usually
> “I’m not sure how much use they have for credit now” or similar.
>
> I do not routinely recommend to PRs that they pull credit, but sometimes
> they will to get additional information where it might be helpful.
>
> I foresee changes to the creditor notice statute given the number of
> publications that are going out of business, the increase in online or
> email only billing, etc. such that checking the mail is losing relevance
> and many counties may lose print publications with sufficient circulation.
> Until then, we do what the law requires.
>
> Heather
>
> Heather S. de Vrieze
> *Attorney-at-Law*
> *<image003.jpg>*
> 3909 California Avenue SW
> Seattle, WA 98116-3705
> (206)938-5500
> heatherd at westseattlelaw.com
> www.westseattlelaw.com
> *Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook: *
> *<image004.png>* <https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney>
>
> For the months of July and August 2021, our firm will be open Monday
> through Thursday 8:30am to 5pm. We will be closed Fridays.
>
>
> CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally
> privileged and/or confidential information.  If you have received this
> e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies
> of this e-mail message and any attachment.
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Roger Hawkes
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 28, 2021 11:07 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Student Loans
>
> Correct; but in many cases it is prudent.  You need client permission, and
> client’s awareness that a third party pulling such report may impact his
> scores.
>
> Roger Hawkes, WSBA # 5173
> Hawkes Law Firm and Sultan Lawyers
> 19944 Ballinger Way NE, Shoreline, WA 98155 and
> 423 Main, Sultan, WA 98294
> 206 367 5000
> 360 799 6438
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Eric Nelsen
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 28, 2021 10:59 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Student Loans
>
> Personally, I don’t think pulling a credit report is required under due
> diligence standard in RCW 11.40.040
> <https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.40.040>, which is
> “conducting a reasonable review of the decedent's correspondence, including
> correspondence received after the date of death, and financial records,
> including personal financial statements, loan documents, checkbooks, bank
> statements, and income tax returns, that are in the possession of or
> reasonably available to the personal representative.” Going to a third
> party to get a report is above and beyond searching the decedent’s personal
> records.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Eric
>
> Eric C. Nelsen
> Sayre Law Offices, PLLC
> 1417 31st Ave South
> Seattle WA 98144-3909
> 206-625-0092
> eric at sayrelawoffices.com
>
> *Covid-19 Update - *All attorneys are working remotely during regular
> business hours and are available via email and by phone. Videoconferencing
> also is available. Signing of estate planning documents can be completed
> and will be handled on a case-by-case basis. Please direct mail and
> deliveries to the Seattle office.
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Paul Neumiller
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 28, 2021 10:38 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Student Loans
>
> WHOA!?!?!  Is a PR pulling a decedent’s credit report a part of the
> standard due diligence in locating ascertainable creditors.  Are you guys
> routinely advising your PRs to pull a credit report?  Amy’s client
> suspected that there were student loans.  Does that suspicion require
> pulling a credit repost.  What if the PR is clueless as to the decedent’s
> affairs.  Is pulling a credit report a part of the due diligence then?
>
>
> <image005.jpg>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Amy Goertz
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 28, 2021 10:16 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Student Loans
>
> Great information - thank you to all who responded!
>
> <image006.gif>
>
> *Amy*
>
> *Amy J. Goertz, J.D.*
> *Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC*
> amyjgoertz at icloud.com
>
>
> 1.888.926.2607 phone
> 1.877.684.1627 fax
> Address for correspondence:
> 2829 S. Grand Blvd., Suite 303
> Spokane, WA 99203
>
> Additional office locations:
> 510 Bell Street
> Edmonds, WA 98020
>
> Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC
> www.goertzlambrecht.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goertzlambrecht.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C65b8885c083048af662b08d951ebf1ed%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637630896283460906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=tDduT%2FDPQeG6ENIikfw3CSrFMjVh8KbWvLRspcbTSa0%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 28, 2021, at 9:02 AM, Elizabeth Bateman <
> Elizabeth at batemanlawgroup.com> wrote:
>
> Studentaid.gov
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fstudentaid.gov%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C65b8885c083048af662b08d951ebf1ed%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637630896283460906%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=RPiTYEpngCOIGtDkY8ZZkI%2FaZSD0imgyK6Dj1c2gYw4%3D&reserved=0>
>  is where you can look up federal student loans.  Private loans will show
> up on credit report.  Some private student loan companies actually will
> discharge the loan at death now.  I know Earnest and Commonbond does.
> There may be others.
>
>
> Elizabeth G. Bateman
> Associate Attorney
> *Admitted in Washington and Minnesota*
> Bateman Law Group, PLLC
> 999 Third Ave., Suite 2525
> Seattle, WA 98104
> Office: (206) 224-0900
> Cell: (425) 444-9946
> Fax: (206) 467-8028
> Website: www.batemanlawgroup.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.batemanlawgroup.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C65b8885c083048af662b08d951ebf1ed%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637630896283470861%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=1qigMCRRg9VDJBdRTb5IbscUcmXkz3fD7oyTz2cGFfo%3D&reserved=0>
>
> ******* *We are Moving!*********
> Effective August 1, 2021:
> 900 SW 16th Street
> Suite 120
> Renton, WA 98057
>
> This email is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 USC
> Sections 2510-2521 and is legally privileged. This information is
> confidential and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity
> named above. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient,
> you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this communication is strictly prohibited. If you think that you have
> received this email message in error, please notify the sender via email or
> by telephone at (206) 224-0900.
>
>
>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> *On Behalf Of *Joshua McKarcher
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 28, 2021 8:49 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Student Loans
>
> Two ideas:
>
> Years ago at least there was a federal database of student loans. It may
> still exist. Try googling it?
>
> Get a recent credit report (three agency) for the deceased.
>
> Good luck! Best, Josh
>
> Joshua D. McKarcher
> McKarcher Law PLLC
> 537 6th Street
> Clarkston, WA 99403
> (509) 758-3345
> (509) 758-3314 (fax)
> josh at mckarcherlaw.com
> www.mckarcherlaw.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mckarcherlaw.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C65b8885c083048af662b08d951ebf1ed%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637630896283480819%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=U%2B8ZHtfnvQFST5PXJRyC15dtiJ7GB6ImBrOcHQ2QrAo%3D&reserved=0>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Amy Goertz <
> amyjgoertz at icloud.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 28, 2021 7:48:59 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* [WSBAPT] Student Loans
>
> Good Morning,
>
> I have a probate in which the Personal Representative is certain that the
> decedent had student loans, but is unable to find any paperwork or other
> documentation from any lender.
>
> Student loan payments have been suspended during the pandemic, so no bills
> have been received and no electronic debits have been made from her account.
>
> In the past, decedents’ student loans have been forgiven upon the
> borrower’s death, but it is my understanding that this is not the case if
> the loan is from a private lender.
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion as to how to find out who holds the
> decedent’s student loans?
>
> The creditor claim period has now ended and we would like to wrap this up.
>
> <image001.gif>
>
> *Amy*
>
> *Amy J. Goertz, J.D.*
> *Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC*
> amyjgoertz at icloud.com
>
>
> 1.888.926.2607 phone
> 1.877.684.1627 fax
> Address for correspondence:
> 2829 S. Grand Blvd., Suite 303
> Spokane, WA 99203
>
> Additional office locations:
> 510 Bell Street
> Edmonds, WA 98020
>
> Goertz & Lambrecht PLLC
> www.goertzlambrecht.com
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.goertzlambrecht.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7C65b8885c083048af662b08d951ebf1ed%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637630896283480819%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=sX0S%2F7G5EBscJCXxo6hw3NzNBqdc4m4q59hUmjiW42Q%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
> others.***
> _______________________________________________
> WSBAPT mailing list
> WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmailman.fsr.com%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Fwsbapt&data=04%7C01%7C%7C65b8885c083048af662b08d951ebf1ed%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637630896283490773%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=e9Bxb6pKL1%2FLLwHkTh%2BizhkWb4XLa%2FGwhbvK3Km6rjA%3D&reserved=0>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
> others.***
> _______________________________________________
> WSBAPT mailing list
> WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
> others.***
> _______________________________________________
> WSBAPT mailing list
> WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20210728/b21050b0/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: mail.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 15153 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20210728/b21050b0/mail.gif>