[WSBAPT] Community Property Agreement - Timing of Effectiveness (WSBAPT Digest, Vol 82, Issue 46)
Kayleigh Lindemuth
kayleigh at nwlegacylaw.com
Wed Jul 28 11:28:57 PDT 2021
Jackie, thank you for your response regarding IRC 1014(e). I think that is actually exactly what the caution was. Curious if you (or anyone else on the listerve) have any thoughts about making it effective one year before the surviving spouse's death to avoid losing the step-up.
Roger, I'm curious to understand your experience with recording community property agreements. Typically, we have only done so when required by a county recorded in conjunction with transferring community property.
Kayleigh E. Lindemuth
Attorney
nwlegacylaw.com | 360-975-7770
-----Original Message-----
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of wsbapt-request at lists.wsbarppt.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 9:13 AM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: WSBAPT Digest, Vol 82, Issue 46
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200 (Jade Coppieters)
2. Re: Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200 (Paul Neumiller)
3. Re: Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200 (Philip N. Jones)
4. Re: Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200 (Paul Neumiller)
5. Re: Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200 (Philip N. Jones)
6. Community Property Agreement - Timing of Effectiveness
(Kayleigh Lindemuth)
7. Re: Community Property Agreement - Timing of Effectiveness
(J A Cyphers)
8. Re: Community Property Agreement - Timing of Effectiveness
(Roger Hawkes)
9. Medicare Trust (michael westseattleattorney.com)
10. Re: Medicare Trust (michael westseattleattorney.com)
11. Re: Medicare Trust (Marcus Fry)
12. Re: Restatement (michael westseattleattorney.com)
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Message: 1
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 19:14:21 +0000
From: Jade Coppieters <jade at scarfflaw.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Message-ID:
<CO1PR13MB49513CD0BDD02A1A040D1C62C6E89 at CO1PR13MB4951.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Neli,
The estate tax apportionment statute provides: ?To the extent that a provision of a decedent's will provides for the apportionment of an estate tax, the tax must be apportioned accordingly.? RCW 83.110A.020(1)(a).
The beneficiaries of non-probate assets do take subject to liabilities, claims, and estate taxes under RCW 11.18.200, but if the testator has apportioned the taxes to the residuary under their will, then the residuary bears the tax.
Regards,
Jade Coppieters
J. M. Coppieters, Esq.
Phone: 206-236-1500
Fax: 306-905-5912
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Neli Espe, J.D. - Olympic Legal
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:56 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Dear List-mates,
WA estate is subject to WA estate tax. The Will states that estate taxes are to be paid out of the residue. The assets in the residue are sufficient to pay the estate tax.
Decedent left substantial investments accounts with POD/TOD designations. The probate and non-probate asset beneficiaries are not the same set of people.
RCW 11.18.200(1) states ?unless expressly exempted by statute? ? a beneficiary of non probate asset takes the asset subject to ? estate taxes.
Question: Does the Will clause regarding payment of estate taxes out of the residue provide an exemption from RCW 11.18.200? Is there any other provision that I am missing?
Thank you
___________________________________
Neli Espe, J.D., Olympic Legal
360.630.3635
olympiclegal.com<http://olympiclegal.com/>
Estate Planning | Probate | Real Estate
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 20:10:33 +0000
From: Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Message-ID:
<MW3PR13MB3980F39A6F4B0381ED804E88D2E89 at MW3PR13MB3980.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On a practical matter, IF the non-probate asset was subject to estate taxes, how does that work? Upon receiving a death certificate, doesn't a bank distribute the non-probate asset directly to the named beneficiary? Assuming lack of beneficiary cooperation, how does a PR force a beneficiary to regurgitate the beneficiary's share of probate expenses?
[cid:image001.jpg at 01D7821F.8AC0D7D0]
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. E-mail messages to clients of Paul A. Neumiller presumptively contain information that is confidential and legally privileged; e-mail messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. Please do not read, copy, forward or store this message unless you are the intended recipient of it. If you have received this message in error, please forward it back to the sender and delete it completely from your computer system.
E-mail communication on the Internet may NOT be secure. There is a risk that this confidential communication may be intercepted illegally. There may also be a risk of waiving attorney-client and/or work-product privileges that may attach to this communication. DO NOT forward this message to a third party. If you have any questions regarding this notice, please contact the sender.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Jade Coppieters
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:14 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Hi Neli,
The estate tax apportionment statute provides: "To the extent that a provision of a decedent's will provides for the apportionment of an estate tax, the tax must be apportioned accordingly." RCW 83.110A.020(1)(a).
The beneficiaries of non-probate assets do take subject to liabilities, claims, and estate taxes under RCW 11.18.200, but if the testator has apportioned the taxes to the residuary under their will, then the residuary bears the tax.
Regards,
Jade Coppieters
J. M. Coppieters, Esq.
Phone: 206-236-1500
Fax: 306-905-5912
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Neli Espe, J.D. - Olympic Legal
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:56 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Dear List-mates,
WA estate is subject to WA estate tax. The Will states that estate taxes are to be paid out of the residue. The assets in the residue are sufficient to pay the estate tax.
Decedent left substantial investments accounts with POD/TOD designations. The probate and non-probate asset beneficiaries are not the same set of people.
RCW 11.18.200(1) states "unless expressly exempted by statute" ... a beneficiary of non probate asset takes the asset subject to ... estate taxes.
Question: Does the Will clause regarding payment of estate taxes out of the residue provide an exemption from RCW 11.18.200? Is there any other provision that I am missing?
Thank you
___________________________________
Neli Espe, J.D., Olympic Legal
360.630.3635
olympiclegal.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Folympiclegal.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca35b5d4f10434ec39a9f08d9506a15fa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637629238840664703%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2Fqs74ZKHtxU1%2B072xJTzpbxaZMvKSN%2FUNQj3AfFQrG0%3D&reserved=0>
Estate Planning | Probate | Real Estate
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 20:33:14 +0000
From: "Philip N. Jones" <pjones at duffykekel.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Message-ID: <A8E1F3A9-72DC-440D-8DE2-FFE6F249E6C8 at duffykekel.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The PR goes to RCW 83.110A.100, which in turn leads to TEDRA.
Phil Jones
Philip N. Jones
Duffy Kekel LLP
Portland, OR
pjones at duffykekel.com
(503) 853-1482 cell
On Jul 26, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com> wrote:
?
On a practical matter, IF the non-probate asset was subject to estate taxes, how does that work? Upon receiving a death certificate, doesn?t a bank distribute the non-probate asset directly to the named beneficiary? Assuming lack of beneficiary cooperation, how does a PR force a beneficiary to regurgitate the beneficiary?s share of probate expenses?
<image001.jpg>
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. E-mail messages to clients of Paul A. Neumiller presumptively contain information that is confidential and legally privileged; e-mail messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. Please do not read, copy, forward or store this message unless you are the intended recipient of it. If you have received this message in error, please forward it back to the sender and delete it completely from your computer system.
E-mail communication on the Internet may NOT be secure. There is a risk that this confidential communication may be intercepted illegally. There may also be a risk of waiving attorney-client and/or work-product privileges that may attach to this communication. DO NOT forward this message to a third party. If you have any questions regarding this notice, please contact the sender.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Jade Coppieters
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:14 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Hi Neli,
The estate tax apportionment statute provides: ?To the extent that a provision of a decedent's will provides for the apportionment of an estate tax, the tax must be apportioned accordingly.? RCW 83.110A.020(1)(a).
The beneficiaries of non-probate assets do take subject to liabilities, claims, and estate taxes under RCW 11.18.200, but if the testator has apportioned the taxes to the residuary under their will, then the residuary bears the tax.
Regards,
Jade Coppieters
J. M. Coppieters, Esq.
Phone: 206-236-1500
Fax: 306-905-5912
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Neli Espe, J.D. - Olympic Legal
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:56 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Dear List-mates,
WA estate is subject to WA estate tax. The Will states that estate taxes are to be paid out of the residue. The assets in the residue are sufficient to pay the estate tax.
Decedent left substantial investments accounts with POD/TOD designations. The probate and non-probate asset beneficiaries are not the same set of people.
RCW 11.18.200(1) states ?unless expressly exempted by statute? ? a beneficiary of non probate asset takes the asset subject to ? estate taxes.
Question: Does the Will clause regarding payment of estate taxes out of the residue provide an exemption from RCW 11.18.200? Is there any other provision that I am missing?
Thank you
___________________________________
Neli Espe, J.D., Olympic Legal
360.630.3635
olympiclegal.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Folympiclegal.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Ca35b5d4f10434ec39a9f08d9506a15fa%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637629238840664703%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=%2Fqs74ZKHtxU1%2B072xJTzpbxaZMvKSN%2FUNQj3AfFQrG0%3D&reserved=0>
Estate Planning | Probate | Real Estate
***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.*** _______________________________________________
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 20:39:48 +0000
From: Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Message-ID:
<MW3PR13MB3980F7B06C678182F1B8B9A5D2E89 at MW3PR13MB3980.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Thanks.
[cid:image001.jpg at 01D78223.B28D2620]
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. E-mail messages to clients of Paul A. Neumiller presumptively contain information that is confidential and legally privileged; e-mail messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. Please do not read, copy, forward or store this message unless you are the intended recipient of it. If you have received this message in error, please forward it back to the sender and delete it completely from your computer system.
E-mail communication on the Internet may NOT be secure. There is a risk that this confidential communication may be intercepted illegally. There may also be a risk of waiving attorney-client and/or work-product privileges that may attach to this communication. DO NOT forward this message to a third party. If you have any questions regarding this notice, please contact the sender.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 1:33 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
The PR goes to RCW 83.110A.100, which in turn leads to TEDRA.
Phil Jones
Philip N. Jones
Duffy Kekel LLP
Portland, OR
pjones at duffykekel.com<mailto:pjones at duffykekel.com>
(503) 853-1482 cell
On Jul 26, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com<mailto:pneumiller at hotmail.com>> wrote:
?
On a practical matter, IF the non-probate asset was subject to estate taxes, how does that work? Upon receiving a death certificate, doesn?t a bank distribute the non-probate asset directly to the named beneficiary? Assuming lack of beneficiary cooperation, how does a PR force a beneficiary to regurgitate the beneficiary?s share of probate expenses?
<image001.jpg>
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. E-mail messages to clients of Paul A. Neumiller presumptively contain information that is confidential and legally privileged; e-mail messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. Please do not read, copy, forward or store this message unless you are the intended recipient of it. If you have received this message in error, please forward it back to the sender and delete it completely from your computer system.
E-mail communication on the Internet may NOT be secure. There is a risk that this confidential communication may be intercepted illegally. There may also be a risk of waiving attorney-client and/or work-product privileges that may attach to this communication. DO NOT forward this message to a third party. If you have any questions regarding this notice, please contact the sender.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Jade Coppieters
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:14 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Hi Neli,
The estate tax apportionment statute provides: ?To the extent that a provision of a decedent's will provides for the apportionment of an estate tax, the tax must be apportioned accordingly.? RCW 83.110A.020(1)(a).
The beneficiaries of non-probate assets do take subject to liabilities, claims, and estate taxes under RCW 11.18.200, but if the testator has apportioned the taxes to the residuary under their will, then the residuary bears the tax.
Regards,
Jade Coppieters
J. M. Coppieters, Esq.
Phone: 206-236-1500
Fax: 306-905-5912
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Neli Espe, J.D. - Olympic Legal
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:56 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Dear List-mates,
WA estate is subject to WA estate tax. The Will states that estate taxes are to be paid out of the residue. The assets in the residue are sufficient to pay the estate tax.
Decedent left substantial investments accounts with POD/TOD designations. The probate and non-probate asset beneficiaries are not the same set of people.
RCW 11.18.200(1) states ?unless expressly exempted by statute? ? a beneficiary of non probate asset takes the asset subject to ? estate taxes.
Question: Does the Will clause regarding payment of estate taxes out of the residue provide an exemption from RCW 11.18.200? Is there any other provision that I am missing?
Thank you
___________________________________
Neli Espe, J.D., Olympic Legal
360.630.3635
olympiclegal.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Folympiclegal.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Caab59950f9f94e5387aa08d950751af8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637629286174604439%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=AkrCVXHd7TZk6pI8%2BRtkNC%2FJomFGAFp5J8LtojSXNKw%3D&reserved=0>
Estate Planning | Probate | Real Estate
***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and others.*** _______________________________________________
WSBAPT mailing list
WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com>
http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt
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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 21:16:01 +0000
From: "Philip N. Jones" <pjones at duffykekel.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Message-ID:
<MWHPR02MB241534A97586A426FD8E625DBCE89 at MWHPR02MB2415.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The uniform act calls for a judicial resolution (if necessary), so the Washington drafters simply tied it to TEDRA.
Phil Jones
Philip N. Jones
Duffy Kekel LLP
900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500
Portland, OR 97204
pjones at duffykekel.com<mailto:pjones at duffykekel.com>
(503) 226-1371 ? office
(503) 853-1482 ? cell
(503) 226-3574 - fax
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 1:40 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Thanks.
[cid:image002.jpg at 01D78228.C23E6250]
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. E-mail messages to clients of Paul A. Neumiller presumptively contain information that is confidential and legally privileged; e-mail messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. Please do not read, copy, forward or store this message unless you are the intended recipient of it. If you have received this message in error, please forward it back to the sender and delete it completely from your computer system.
E-mail communication on the Internet may NOT be secure. There is a risk that this confidential communication may be intercepted illegally. There may also be a risk of waiving attorney-client and/or work-product privileges that may attach to this communication. DO NOT forward this message to a third party. If you have any questions regarding this notice, please contact the sender.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 1:33 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
The PR goes to RCW 83.110A.100, which in turn leads to TEDRA.
Phil Jones
Philip N. Jones
Duffy Kekel LLP
Portland, OR
pjones at duffykekel.com<mailto:pjones at duffykekel.com>
(503) 853-1482 cell
On Jul 26, 2021, at 1:13 PM, Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com<mailto:pneumiller at hotmail.com>> wrote:
?
On a practical matter, IF the non-probate asset was subject to estate taxes, how does that work? Upon receiving a death certificate, doesn?t a bank distribute the non-probate asset directly to the named beneficiary? Assuming lack of beneficiary cooperation, how does a PR force a beneficiary to regurgitate the beneficiary?s share of probate expenses?
<image001.jpg>
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. E-mail messages to clients of Paul A. Neumiller presumptively contain information that is confidential and legally privileged; e-mail messages to non-clients are normally confidential and may also be legally privileged. Please do not read, copy, forward or store this message unless you are the intended recipient of it. If you have received this message in error, please forward it back to the sender and delete it completely from your computer system.
E-mail communication on the Internet may NOT be secure. There is a risk that this confidential communication may be intercepted illegally. There may also be a risk of waiving attorney-client and/or work-product privileges that may attach to this communication. DO NOT forward this message to a third party. If you have any questions regarding this notice, please contact the sender.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Jade Coppieters
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 12:14 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Hi Neli,
The estate tax apportionment statute provides: ?To the extent that a provision of a decedent's will provides for the apportionment of an estate tax, the tax must be apportioned accordingly.? RCW 83.110A.020(1)(a).
The beneficiaries of non-probate assets do take subject to liabilities, claims, and estate taxes under RCW 11.18.200, but if the testator has apportioned the taxes to the residuary under their will, then the residuary bears the tax.
Regards,
Jade Coppieters
J. M. Coppieters, Esq.
Phone: 206-236-1500
Fax: 306-905-5912
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Neli Espe, J.D. - Olympic Legal
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 11:56 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Non-probate assets - Will - RCW 11.18.200
Dear List-mates,
WA estate is subject to WA estate tax. The Will states that estate taxes are to be paid out of the residue. The assets in the residue are sufficient to pay the estate tax.
Decedent left substantial investments accounts with POD/TOD designations. The probate and non-probate asset beneficiaries are not the same set of people.
RCW 11.18.200(1) states ?unless expressly exempted by statute? ? a beneficiary of non probate asset takes the asset subject to ? estate taxes.
Question: Does the Will clause regarding payment of estate taxes out of the residue provide an exemption from RCW 11.18.200? Is there any other provision that I am missing?
Thank you
___________________________________
Neli Espe, J.D., Olympic Legal
360.630.3635
olympiclegal.com<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Folympiclegal.com%2F&data=04%7C01%7C%7Caab59950f9f94e5387aa08d950751af8%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637629286174604439%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=AkrCVXHd7TZk6pI8%2BRtkNC%2FJomFGAFp5J8LtojSXNKw%3D&reserved=0>
Estate Planning | Probate | Real Estate
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 21:32:02 +0000
From: Kayleigh Lindemuth <kayleigh at nwlegacylaw.com>
To: "wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Community Property Agreement - Timing of
Effectiveness
Message-ID:
<DM6PR11MB3162EF53DEA6CE603C854D11DFE89 at DM6PR11MB3162.namprd11.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hello listmates,
I'm wondering if anyone has any insight regarding when to make a community property agreement effective. I've always drafted them so that they're effective immediately. I know others sometimes draft them so that they're effective right before the first spouse's death. Something in the back of my mind is saying there's some downside to the latter approach, but I can't recall exactly what it is and I'm not finding anything along those lines as I'm researching it. I believe the downside had something to do with the fact that making it effective right before someone's death might not have been a long enough duration of time for it to be deemed legitimate. Any insight on this topic is greatly appreciated!
[cid:image001.png at 01D78229.0383FA90]
Kayleigh E. Lindemuth
Attorney
nwlegacylaw.com<http://nwlegacylaw.com/> | 360-975-7770
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 14:43:24 -0700
From: J A Cyphers <jacyphers at gmail.com>
To: "WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv" <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Community Property Agreement - Timing of
Effectiveness
Message-ID:
<CAFu2k8Go7nQhH+Ph=3+fmmX4rhJhygyjiGteRjyXT+fXHcQF=Q at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
IRC Section 1014(e) prohibits a step up in basis in regards to appreciated property that was acquired by the decedent via a gift within one year of their death.
If the assets are all community property, this would have no effect But if the effect of the community property agreement would be to convert separate property to community property, then this statute prevents a step up in basis .
So if husband has separate property, wife dies, and a community property agreement converts husband's property to community property at wife's death, the converted separate property does not get a step up in basis because wife received it by the community property agreement - presumably a gift - within one year of death.
On Mon, Jul 26, 2021 at 2:35 PM Kayleigh Lindemuth <kayleigh at nwlegacylaw.com>
wrote:
> Hello listmates,
>
>
>
> I?m wondering if anyone has any insight regarding when to make a
> community property agreement effective. I?ve always drafted them so
> that they?re effective immediately. I know others sometimes draft them
> so that they?re effective right before the first spouse?s death.
> Something in the back of my mind is saying there?s some downside to
> the latter approach, but I can?t recall exactly what it is and I?m not
> finding anything along those lines as I?m researching it. I believe
> the downside had something to do with the fact that making it
> effective right before someone?s death might not have been a long
> enough duration of time for it to be deemed legitimate. Any insight on this topic is greatly appreciated!
>
>
>
> *Kayleigh E. Lindemuth*
>
> Attorney
>
> nwlegacylaw.com | 360-975-7770
>
>
>
>
> ***Disclaimer: Please note that RPPT listserv participation is not
> restricted to practicing attorneys and may include non-practicing
> attorneys, law students, professionals working in related fields, and
> others.***
> _______________________________________________
> WSBAPT mailing list
> WSBAPT at lists.wsbarppt.com
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/wsbapt
--
Jackie Cyphers
Jeannette A. Cyphers, Attorney at Law
P. O. Box 908
Edmonds, WA 98020-0908
telephone 425-776-5887
fax 425-640-0814
jacyphers at gmail.com
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Message: 8
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 03:33:04 +0000
From: Roger Hawkes <Roger at law-hawks.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Community Property Agreement - Timing of
Effectiveness
Message-ID:
<CO6PR16MB40976BF4F77A1B321103C6ACE9E99 at CO6PR16MB4097.namprd16.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Aren't they ineffective until recorded??
Roger Hawkes, WSBA # 5173
Shoreline Office: 19944 Ballinger Way NE
Shoreline, WA 98155
Sultan Office: 423 Main
Sultan, WA 98294
Phone: 206 367 5000; fax: 206 367 4005
Email: roger at law-hawks.com<mailto:roger at law-hawks.com>
Web site: www.hawkeslawfirm.com<http://www.hawkeslawfirm.com/>
[cid:image002.jpg at 01D7825D.6EC91400]
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Kayleigh Lindemuth
Sent: Monday, July 26, 2021 2:32 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com
Subject: [WSBAPT] Community Property Agreement - Timing of Effectiveness
Hello listmates,
I'm wondering if anyone has any insight regarding when to make a community property agreement effective. I've always drafted them so that they're effective immediately. I know others sometimes draft them so that they're effective right before the first spouse's death. Something in the back of my mind is saying there's some downside to the latter approach, but I can't recall exactly what it is and I'm not finding anything along those lines as I'm researching it. I believe the downside had something to do with the fact that making it effective right before someone's death might not have been a long enough duration of time for it to be deemed legitimate. Any insight on this topic is greatly appreciated!
[cid:image003.png at 01D7825D.6EC91400]
Kayleigh E. Lindemuth
Attorney
nwlegacylaw.com<http://nwlegacylaw.com/> | 360-975-7770
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Message: 9
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 15:11:27 +0000
From: "michael westseattleattorney.com"
<michael at westseattleattorney.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] Medicare Trust
Message-ID:
<DM6PR05MB6555FF46B088EA6EAB866F0AB7E99 at DM6PR05MB6555.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
PC brought in a RLT from 2005 and said drafter told her that it protected her assets from Medicaid in case she went into a nursing home. This was news to me. It is my understanding that the assets are considered to be in your estate when qualifying for meicaid. Yes, No? Thanks
[cid:5a9632f1-d50a-474b-8158-558b8674c2d8]
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Message: 10
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 15:25:13 +0000
From: "michael westseattleattorney.com"
<michael at westseattleattorney.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Medicare Trust
Message-ID:
<DM6PR05MB6555617C767E45289BC66889B7E99 at DM6PR05MB6555.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Correction - drafter used words : " .. protects in case you or a family member needs to apply for state financial assistance"
[cid:2f887ef2-8dd0-4d55-94fa-54e6b123024d]
________________________________
From: michael westseattleattorney.com <michael at westseattleattorney.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 8:11 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Medicare Trust
PC brought in a RLT from 2005 and said drafter told her that it protected her assets from Medicaid in case she went into a nursing home. This was news to me. It is my understanding that the assets are considered to be in your estate when qualifying for meicaid. Yes, No? Thanks
[cid:5a9632f1-d50a-474b-8158-558b8674c2d8]
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Message: 11
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 15:40:38 +0000
From: Marcus Fry <mfry at lyon-law.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Medicare Trust
Message-ID:
<MWHPR14MB1630D70A2E2B9B50C0176F17F6E99 at MWHPR14MB1630.namprd14.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Your client was told incorrectly. Not uncommon. Laypeople think there is only one type of trust and that their RLT protects from all kinds of creditors. Resources held in a RLT are not exempt from being counted in Washington State for Medicaid. See WAC 182-516-0115.
Marcus J. Fry
Lyon, Weigand & Gustafson, P.S.
P.O. Box 1689
Yakima, Washington 98907
Telephone: (509) 248-7220
Facsimile: (509) 575-1883
NOTICES:
Confidentiality: This e-mail transmission may contain information which is protected by attorney-client, work product and/or other privileges. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, or taking of any action in reliance on the contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please contact us immediately and return the e-mail to us by choosing Reply (or the corresponding function on your e-mail system) and then deleting the e-mail.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of michael westseattleattorney.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 8:25 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserve
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Medicare Trust
Correction - drafter used words : " .. protects in case you or a family member needs to apply for state financial assistance"
[cid:image001.png at 01D782C3.12848FB0]
________________________________
From: michael westseattleattorney.com <michael at westseattleattorney.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 8:11 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Medicare Trust
PC brought in a RLT from 2005 and said drafter told her that it protected her assets from Medicaid in case she went into a nursing home. This was news to me. It is my understanding that the assets are considered to be in your estate when qualifying for meicaid. Yes, No? Thanks
[cid:image001.png at 01D782C3.12848FB0]
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Message: 12
Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 16:12:45 +0000
From: "michael westseattleattorney.com"
<michael at westseattleattorney.com>
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Restatement
Message-ID:
<DM6PR05MB6555BADA6B948FD4918BA753B7E99 at DM6PR05MB6555.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Thanks Marcus. Looks like I need to amend the RLT. However, recently this list discussed restatements vs amendments and so I researched this and think that a restatement would be preferred as there are a lot of changes. Is there a good provision you might share that I can review? Thanks Mike
[cid:1da1506d-9d12-42df-8ccb-ff02525e53ac]
________________________________
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> on behalf of Marcus Fry <mfry at lyon-law.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 8:40 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Medicare Trust
Your client was told incorrectly. Not uncommon. Laypeople think there is only one type of trust and that their RLT protects from all kinds of creditors. Resources held in a RLT are not exempt from being counted in Washington State for Medicaid. See WAC 182-516-0115.
Marcus J. Fry
Lyon, Weigand & Gustafson, P.S.
P.O. Box 1689
Yakima, Washington 98907
Telephone: (509) 248-7220
Facsimile: (509) 575-1883
NOTICES:
Confidentiality: This e-mail transmission may contain information which is protected by attorney-client, work product and/or other privileges. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, or taking of any action in reliance on the contents, is strictly prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please contact us immediately and return the e-mail to us by choosing Reply (or the corresponding function on your e-mail system) and then deleting the e-mail.
From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of michael westseattleattorney.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 8:25 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserve
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Medicare Trust
Correction - drafter used words : " .. protects in case you or a family member needs to apply for state financial assistance"
[cid:image001.png at 01D782C3.12848FB0]
________________________________
From: michael westseattleattorney.com <michael at westseattleattorney.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 8:11 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserve <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Medicare Trust
PC brought in a RLT from 2005 and said drafter told her that it protected her assets from Medicaid in case she went into a nursing home. This was news to me. It is my understanding that the assets are considered to be in your estate when qualifying for meicaid. Yes, No? Thanks
[cid:image001.png at 01D782C3.12848FB0]
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------------------------------
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