[WSBAPT] Date Needed for Testamentary Trust?

Wed Nov 25 17:37:59 PST 2020

Definitely agreed, and don't see the harm in making this easy on everyone looking at the deed 10-20 years later. (We are often the ones trying to make sense of 30 year old deeds, remember.)

I reference the will date, because I want a person looking at it years later to know the will they "find" and refer to is the correct one, and the easiest/most sure way is by reference to the date on the will itself, not its date of probate, etc. The date of death can be found elsewhere if ever relevant (in the probate record, etc.). So here is what I just used recently after conferring with title company and county assessor, and I would use same on the Washington side of the river here, too:

. . . FIRST M. LAST, trustee, or his successor in interest, of the FIRST LAST TRUST created under the Last Will and Testament of First M. Last dated December 21, 2016, and admitted to probate by an order dated January 21, 2020 in Case No. CV35-19-2063 in the District Court of the Second Judicial District of the State of Idaho in and for the County of Nez Perce . . .

For obtaining EIN and naming bank accounts, I have no problem with simply FIRST LAST TRUST, but I also do a simple trust certification for the trustee to sign that recites the facts and makes it easy for everyone, even attaching excerpts of the will containing trust provisions as exhibit to certification if helpful to a bank or other third party we're doing business with.

Best, Josh

Joshua D. McKarcher
McKarcher Law PLLC
537 6th Street
Clarkston, WA 99403
(509) 758-3345
(509) 758-3314 (fax)
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Philip N. Jones
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 4:47 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Date Needed for Testamentary Trust?

I vote with Heather.  The deed should tell the full story.
Phil Jones

Philip N. Jones
Duffy Kekel LLP
900 S.W. Fifth Ave. Suite 2500
Portland, OR 97204
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Heather de Vrieze
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 1:32 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Date Needed for Testamentary Trust?

I agree with what other folks have said about identifying that the trust was created under a will. I'll add that if that will has been probated, I will usually reference the cause number as well. In fact anytime I am deeding property out of an estate I will generally identify the Personal Representative, under authority granted by the court xx date and the cause number. This makes is super easy for the title company to look up the probate and find the order of solvency, the order appointing Personal Representative, see if the estate is open or closed, and review the Will should they so choose.

Heather

Heather S. de Vrieze
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Jane Bitz
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 1:17 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Date Needed for Testamentary Trust?

Thank you to all who weighed in on this. It is good to know the way I draft a deed can help to keep things orderly in the future.
Jane Bitz.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of John McCrady
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 12:50 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Date Needed for Testamentary Trust?

I agree with Mr. Grant, except that I do prefer to see "under the will of..." since it helps identify the source of the trust.

John McCrady
Counsel
Puget Sound Title Company
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Josh Grant
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 11:35 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Date Needed for Testamentary Trust?

I think our title companies prefer "To  ______ Trustee of the Jones Family Testamentary Trust " and maybe add "under Will of _____" but I don't.  I believe a date is not needed for a testamentary trust...  probably for the reasons you state.
Josh

Joshua F. Grant
[advocates]
P. O. Box 619
Wilbur, WA 99185
509 647 5578

From: Jane Bitz
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2020 11:19 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: [WSBAPT] Date Needed for Testamentary Trust?

I am attorney for an estate where a testamentary trust is set up for grandchildren of the decedent. We are funding the Trust from the Estate and I am drafting a Deed of estate real property from the PR to the Trustee of the Trust. Ordinarily the grant would be: "To the Trustee of the Jones Family Trust dated ________."

Do I have to use a date for this testamentary Trust? And if yes, do I use the Grantor's Date of Death or the date that the Will was signed or other date?

What would be the best practice here?

Thanks.
Jane.

Jane G. Bitz
Of Counsel
Wolff, Hislop & Crockett, PLLC
12209 E. Mission Ave, Suite 5
Spokane Valley, WA 99206-4824
(509) 927-9700 x126
FAX: (509) 777-1800

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