[WSBAPT] IRA with "Estate" beneficiary, and RCW 11.62 small estate affidavit

Thu Mar 7 17:56:45 PST 2019

Amazing the time spent on this small estate affidavit which is supposed to simplify things and reduce costs.   

From: Jen Doehne 
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2019 5:06 PM
To: mailto:ak at seattle-silvalaw.com ; WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv ; Paul Neumiller 
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] IRA with "Estate" beneficiary, and RCW 11.62 small estate affidavit

In Thurston County, we don’t receive cause numbers for our Small Estate Affidavits….I’m not sure if they would if I pushed for one since it is really an open and close matter.

Best wishes,

Jen

Jennifer Doehne, Attorney at Law, LL.M.

BEAN, GENTRY, WHEELER & PETERNELL, PLLC

910 Lakeridge Way SW

Olympia, Washington 98502

Phone: 360.357.2852  |  Fax: 360.786.6943

jdoehne at bgwp.net  | www.bgwp.net 

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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Andrekita Silva
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2019 4:53 PM
To: Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com>
Cc: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] IRA with "Estate" beneficiary, and RCW 11.62 small estate affidavit

When I filed the Small Estate Affidavit, it was a filing fee of $20.00, same as filing a Will Filing Only No probate.

I always put a caption on my Small Estate Affidavit, as if I were going to file it, although I’m pretty confident I have never done so in the past.

Like any other pleading filed, the court clerk  gave me the cause #, which was a probate action cause #, so 18-4- ….  SEA

So, my caption:

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON
IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF KING

SMALL ESTATE AFFIDAVIT

AFFIDAVIT OF  -xxxx--  ( the beneficiary/ person handling the small estate matter)
FOR DISTRIBUTION OF DECEDENT’S PROPERTY

Below that, I put the affidavit.

The Clerk did say " I can't remember if I've seen someone file one of these .."  but she didn't bat an eye and just went about the business of taking it, giving me my cause #, and the stamp to conform the copies I took.  I actually had my client issue multiple originals as a couple of the asset holders asked for the ORIGINAL affidavit.  I don't know why a straight up conformed copy would not have been good enough but it was easy enough to accomodate the request.

andrekita
Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
1325 Fourth Avenue, Suite 2000
Seattle, Washington 98101
206-224-8288
www.seattle-silvalaw.com

Quoting Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com>:

  Andrekita, how did you file the Affidavit?  Did you use a standard masthead, and if yes, who did you put as the parties?  Was the cause number as a civil action or a probate action, or ???  Thanks, I’m just trying to figure out how you did this because I suspect the court clerks in my county would reject filing the Affidavit. 

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  From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Andrekita Silva
  Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2019 2:35 PM
  To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
  Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] IRA with "Estate" beneficiary, and RCW 11.62 small estate affidavit

  Eric

  I had a similar situation this past summer.  I had a small estate and one of the asset holders of some stock options insisted on an EIN and insisted that the asset needed to be distributed to the estate, not the beneficiary.

  After a few rounds of communication, explaining the whole purpose for the small affidavit procedure being to avoid the cost of probate), etc. and getting nowhere, I filed the small estate affidavit with the court. 

  I sent the conformed copy of the affidavit (with its cause number and date stamp received by courthouse) to the asset holder with a copy of the statute and again, explained the purpose of the statute. I do not ordinarily file the small estate affidavit with the court.  But, in this case, it seemed to do the trick. The asset holder had many different versions of forms and finally came up with the one that addressed our situation. 

  So, if you haven’t filed the affidavit and gotten a cause number, try that.

  andrekita
  Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
  1325 Fourth Avenue, Suite 2000
  Seattle, Washington 98101
  206-224-8288
  www.seattle-silvalaw.com

  Quoting Eric Nelsen <Eric at sayrelawoffices.com>:

    No, not based on the information I have from the custodian. It's pretty clear that they want to (A) transfer the decedent's IRA investments into an "Estate IRA" with an EIN tied to the Estate, and then (B) let the PR direct them how to distribute the new Estate IRA. They don't want to collapse the steps and allow direct transfer to the three heirs.

    Sincerely,

    Eric

    Eric C. Nelsen

    SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC

    1417 31st Ave South

    Seattle WA  98144-3909

    phone 206-625-0092

    fax 206-625-9040

    From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jane Bitz
    Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2019 11:29 AM
    To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
    Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] IRA with "Estate" beneficiary, and RCW 11.62 small estate affidavit

    Eric:

    Will the IRA custodian consider distributing directly to the three beneficiaries of the “estate” with the proper documentation, essentially each heir claiming their 1/3 using the lack of probate affidavit?

    Jane Bitz.

    Jane G Bitz

    Of Counsel

    Wolff, Hislop & Crockett, PLLC

    12209 E Mission, Suite 5

    Spokane Valley WA 99206-4824

    (509) 927-9700; FAX (509) 777-1800

    mailto:jane at jbitzlaw.com

    THE CONTENTS OF THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL ARE CONFIDENTIAL AND PROTECTED BY THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE OR OTHER APPLICABLE PROTECTION.  Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited.  If you have received this electronic mail in error, PLEASE NOTIFY ME BY E-MAIL, FAX OR TELEPHONE and PROMPTLY DELETE this electronic mail.  This mail cannot be modified without express written consent of Wolff, Hislop & Crockett, PLLC.  Thank You.

    From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Eric Nelsen
    Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2019 11:04 AM
    To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv (wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com) <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
    Subject: [WSBAPT] IRA with "Estate" beneficiary, and RCW 11.62 small estate affidavit

    I didn't think this was a first for me, but maybe it is--

    Decedent had a small IRA that had the default "estate" beneficiary. Total value less than $30,000.

    Submitted a small estate affidavit directing distribution to my client, for my client's account and also as agent for the other two heirs. Obviously my client isn't the PR of the Estate, but just a "successor" entitled to submit the affidavit, and also agent for the other heirs per their authorizations.

    Custodian of the IRA refuses to distribute, because the "Estate" is the beneficiary, and therefore there must be a PR appointed who can receive the money on behalf of the "Estate."

    Is there no way around starting a probate in this scenario? I am thinking my client is stuck with starting a probate.

    Sincerely,

    Eric

    Eric C. Nelsen

    SAYRE LAW OFFICES, PLLC

    1417 31st Ave South

    Seattle WA  98144-3909

    phone 206-625-0092

    fax 206-625-9040

  andrekita
  Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
  1325 Fourth Avenue, Suite 2000
  Seattle, Washington 98101
  206-224-8288
  www.seattle-silvalaw.com

andrekita
Law Office of F. Andrekita Silva
1325 Fourth Avenue, Suite 2000
Seattle, Washington 98101
206-224-8288
www.seattle-silvalaw.com

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