[WSBAPT] Double Probate for elderly couple

Wed Jan 30 13:09:44 PST 2019

Re:  Heather’s point (below).  Getting an EIN for Joint Estates involves some work-arounds.

The IRS Website, through which one obtains an EIN for an Estate, only allows for insertion of one named Decedent and one SSN.

Nonetheless, I usually have my PR sign an SS-4, which mentions “Jane Doe and John Doe Joint Estates” (the first name is the most recent to die, in my way of doing things), and I include the SSN of both of the individuals on the SS-4 Form.  On the IRS Website, I use the first named Decedent and his/her SSN, because that is all I can insert.

When the EIN is assigned on the Website, I insert the number in the upper-right-hand corner of the SS-4, which includes both Decedents’ names.  That is supplied to those who need to know (such as the Title Company closing the sale of the residence).

Then, when the title company issues the 1099 after the sale of the real estate, it is reported on a 1099-S, using the EIN issued by the IRS.

If a living couple sells a community-owned home, the Title Company issues one 1099-S, using the SSN of one of the spouses, although both spouses were owners of the sold residence.

None of the CPAs with whom I have worked have reported any issues in filing the 1041 for the Joint Estates, just before the case is closed.

In my  opinion, the IRS is not really concerned with whether it is the Estate of an individual Decedent, or Joint Estates of Two Decedents.  The 1041 accomplishes two things.  It lets the IRS know that the IRS file is to be closed on this matter (there is a place on the 1041 to report that a return is a “first and final” return).  If such a return is not filed, a PR might get a knock on the door, years later, with the IRS asking why no 1041 returns have been filed for the past x number of years (well after the PR thought the case was over).

Second, the real meat of the 1041 filing consists of the K-1 forms that are filed with the IRS when the final 1041 return is filed, which passes the income or loss sustained by the Estate down to the individual beneficiary level, to be included on his/her 1040.

Regards,

Doug Bratt

Douglas J. Bratt
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Heather deVrieze
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:57 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Double Probate for elderly couple

I have had issues doing it this way when there were stocks held in the name of only one spouse and find getting an EIN for a “joint” estate to be a problem.

That said, I have done this several times where it was only bank accounts and a home owned in both spouse’s names.

Heather

Heather S. de Vrieze
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> On Behalf Of Jane Bitz
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:24 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Double Probate for elderly couple

Yes you can do this. We always list both names in the caption & have the letters name both decedents. I have even done this where the first spouse passed away years before, but no probate was done. It allows the PR to sign on behalf of both estates if necessary to clear title to real estate, etc.
Jane Bitz.

Jane G Bitz
Of Counsel
Wolff, Hislop & Crockett, PLLC
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Spokane Valley WA 99206-4824
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From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>> On Behalf Of Erin Fairley
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2019 10:53 AM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] Double Probate for elderly couple

Hi all,

I’m pretty sure that I can do this but seeking confirmation:  H & W die within six months of one another; identical wills; one heir; solvent estate; no issues.  Can I petition Estates of H & W?  Any weird issues at banks, court?

Thank you,
Erin

Erin Fairley / Attorney
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Leschi Law, PLLC
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