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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body bgcolor=white lang=EN-US link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72"><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Re: Heather’s point (below). Getting an EIN for Joint Estates involves some work-arounds.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>The IRS Website, through which one obtains an EIN for an Estate, only allows for insertion of one named Decedent and one SSN.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Nonetheless, I usually have my PR sign an SS-4, which mentions “Jane Doe and John Doe Joint Estates” (the first name is the most recent to die, in my way of doing things), and I include the SSN of both of the individuals on the SS-4 Form. On the IRS Website, I use the first named Decedent and his/her SSN, because that is all I can insert.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>When the EIN is assigned on the Website, I insert the number in the upper-right-hand corner of the SS-4, which includes both Decedents’ names. That is supplied to those who need to know (such as the Title Company closing the sale of the residence).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Then, when the title company issues the 1099 after the sale of the real estate, it is reported on a 1099-S, using the EIN issued by the IRS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>If a living couple sells a community-owned home, the Title Company issues one 1099-S, using the SSN of one of the spouses, although both spouses were owners of the sold residence. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>None of the CPAs with whom I have worked have reported any issues in filing the 1041 for the Joint Estates, just before the case is closed. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>In my opinion, the IRS is not really concerned with whether it is the Estate of an individual Decedent, or Joint Estates of Two Decedents. The 1041 accomplishes two things. It lets the IRS know that the IRS file is to be closed on this matter (there is a place on the 1041 to report that a return is a “first and final” return). If such a return is not filed, a PR might get a knock on the door, years later, with the IRS asking why no 1041 returns have been filed for the past x number of years (well after the PR thought the case was over). <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Second, the real meat of the 1041 filing consists of the K-1 forms that are filed with the IRS when the final 1041 return is filed, which passes the income or loss sustained by the Estate down to the individual beneficiary level, to be included on his/her 1040.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'>Doug Bratt <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Lucida Calligraphy";color:#1F497D'>Douglas J. Bratt</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Lucida Calligraphy";color:#1F497D'>Lawyer</span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><img width=165 height=167 id="_x0000_i1029" src="cid:image002.jpg@01D4B89D.11CC1270" alt="Envelope scaled Terry"></span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>Office: (360) 213-2040 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'> Fax: (360) 213-2030<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email message may contain confidential or privileged information. If you have received this message by mistake, please do not review, disclose, copy, or distribute the email. Instead, please notify us immediately by replying to this message or telephoning us. Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>NOTE:</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'>I do not use encrypted email. Messages sent to or from my office via email are not secure and may not be protected by attorney-client privilege. This email address is not monitored at all times. If your matter is urgent, please phone my office during regular business hours.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Heather deVrieze<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:57 AM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Double Probate for elderly couple<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I have had issues doing it this way when there were stocks held in the name of only one spouse and find getting an EIN for a “joint” estate to be a problem.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>That said, I have done this several times where it was only bank accounts and a home owned in both spouse’s names.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Heather<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Vladimir Script";color:#1F497D'>Heather S. de Vrieze</span><b><span style='font-size:16.0pt;color:#1F497D'><br></span></b><i><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F497D'>Attorney-at-Law<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F497D'><img width=189 height=105 id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image004.jpg@01D4B89D.11CC1270" alt="cid:image001.jpg@01D013C2.30F35160"></span></i><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Garamond","serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E'>3909 California Avenue SW<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E'>Seattle, WA 98116-3705 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E'>(206)938-5500 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="mailto:heatherd@westseattlelaw.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E'>heatherd@westseattlelaw.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.westseattlelaw.com/"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E'>www.westseattlelaw.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#002E8A'>Click here to connect with de Vrieze | Carney on Facebook: </span><span style='color:#1F497D'> </span></b><a href="https://www.facebook.com/DeVriezeCarney"><b><span style='color:blue;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=72 height=21 id="_x0000_i1026" src="cid:image011.png@01D4B89D.11CC1270" alt="FB Logo"></span></b></a><span style='font-family:Nyala;color:#44524E'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#A6A6A6'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:8.0pt;color:#A6A6A6'>CONFIDENTIAL & PRIVILEGED. This e-mail message may contain legally privileged and/or confidential information. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this e-mail message and any attachment.</span><span style='font-size:16.0pt;font-family:"Cambria","serif";color:blue'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com <wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jane Bitz<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:24 AM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Double Probate for elderly couple<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Yes you can do this. We always list both names in the caption & have the letters name both decedents. I have even done this where the first spouse passed away years before, but no probate was done. It allows the PR to sign on behalf of both estates if necessary to clear title to real estate, etc.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Jane Bitz.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Jane G Bitz<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Of Counsel<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Wolff, Hislop & Crockett, PLLC<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>12209 E Mission, Suite 5<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>Spokane Valley WA 99206-4824<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>(509) 927-9700; FAX (509) 777-1800<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><a href="mailto:jane@jbitzlaw.com"><span style='color:blue'>jbitz@whc-attorneys.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Times New Roman","serif";color:#1F497D'><img border=0 width=346 height=174 id="Picture_x0020_1" src="cid:image005.png@01D4B899.3AA165F0" alt="cid:image002.png@01D06C8A.419B0730"></span><img border=0 width=273 height=96 id="Picture_x0020_2" src="cid:image006.jpg@01D4B899.3AA165F0"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><i><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:#2F5496'>THE CONTENTS OF THIS ELECTRONIC MAIL ARE CONFIDENTIAL AND PROTECTED BY THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT PRIVILEGE OR OTHER APPLICABLE PROTECTION. Any review, use, distribution or disclosure by others is strictly prohibited. If you have received this electronic mail in error, PLEASE NOTIFY ME BY E-MAIL, FAX OR TELEPHONE and PROMPTLY DELETE this electronic mail. This mail cannot be modified without express written consent of Wolff, Hislop & Crockett, PLLC. Thank You.<o:p></o:p></span></i></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a> <<a href="mailto:wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt-bounces@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Erin Fairley<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 30, 2019 10:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <<a href="mailto:wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com">wsbapt@lists.wsbarppt.com</a>><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [WSBAPT] Double Probate for elderly couple<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi all,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>I’m pretty sure that I can do this but seeking confirmation: H & W die within six months of one another; identical wills; one heir; solvent estate; no issues. Can I petition Estates of H & W? Any weird issues at banks, court? <o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you,<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Erin<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:black'>Erin Fairley</span></b><span style='color:black'> / Attorney<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:erin@leschilaw.com">erin@leschilaw.com</a> / (206) 353-4625<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='color:black'>Leschi Law, PLLC</span></b><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>121 Lakeside Avenue, Suite B Seattle, WA 98122<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><a href="http://www.leschilaw.com/">www.leschilaw.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=766 style='width:459.75pt;margin-left:-5.4pt;border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td width=767 colspan=3 style='width:460.0pt;background:white;padding:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt'><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>The information contained in this e-mail message may be privileged, confidential and protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, distribution or copying of this e-mail message or any attachment to it is strictly prohibited. <o:p></o:p></span></p></td></tr><tr><td width=1 style='width:.3pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=143 style='width:85.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=624 style='width:374.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td></tr><tr><td width=1 style='width:.3pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=143 style='width:85.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=624 style='width:374.25pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td></tr></table><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>-- <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></body></html>