[WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

Sat Oct 14 09:59:55 PDT 2017

FWIW, I completely agree.
Probate is not an expensive process. I have seen attorneys on this listserv tying themselves in knots trying to “avoid probate.” In most cases, the proposed solution carries increased risk (compared to probate) with minimal, if any, savings to the client.
My $.02
John

John Creahan
www.cairn-law.com<http://www.cairn-law.com/>
Now located in the heart of Fremont
3417 Evanston Ave. N, Suite 312
Seattle, WA 98103
206-578-5877

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Jim Doran
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 6:16 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

Paul:
This is the same analysis that I have come to.  The feedback on this issue for the past several exchanges has resulted in exactly what you are saying here.  I come from the old school where you get a title transferred legitimately and through the right process.  Shortcuts are dangerous.  Chain of title is what probate is all about, that and the creditors.  And it is good work for us lawyers so why short-cut it at all.
The Title Tsunami.....  I like it.  We'll have even more work straightening up the mess.
Jim Doran

James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street -  Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com<mailto:jim at doranlegal.com>
www.doranlegal.com<http://www.doranlegal.com>

On Fri, Oct 13, 2017 at 8:45 AM, Paul Neumiller <pneumiller at hotmail.com<mailto:pneumiller at hotmail.com>> wrote:
This really goes against my understanding.  Those WACs only address exemption from the Excise Tax, not the transfer of title.  In the absence of a recorded Community Property Agreement or a recorded Transfer On Death Deed or a probated estate, a Lack of Probate Affidavit is only effective if a title company is willing to accept it in terms of insuring a sale of the property.  I sure hope Dwight Bickel or some other title person chimes in here.  While the widow can record the deed (or the Affidavit), the real test will come at a later time when a title company is asked to insure a sale of the property.  Now, if that sale is ten years down the road, an insurance company may feel it’s a safe enough transaction to insure because of the passage of time but I doubt an insurance company will accept the Affidavit if the sale is within two years.

I have advised my clients that it is safest to probate the estate to ensure later title insurance on a sale of the property.  It has been my analysis that the title companies are currently willing to insure the transfer of title using a an Affidavit of Lack of Probate until they, as an industry, get burned by a lawsuit involving an Affidavit, the case will hit the conservative title insurance industry like a tsunami, and then their “acceptance” of an Affidavit will dissolve.  That may force the widow to go back and probate the estate.

[cid:image001.jpg at 01D344D3.2DF31550]

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] On Behalf Of Mike Winslow
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 5:34 PM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

I have heard that the clerks in the tax assessor’s offices tell people they need a deed. This happens is Skagit. Not necessary and not effective to transfer title. Redundant, waste of money, etc.
The Lack of Probate affidavit is sufficient. Record it per the WAC, then, wife just deeds to Trust. Use a warranty deed, not a quit claim deed, to maintain title insurance coverage from original acquisition.
See  WAC 458-61A-202. Look at 6(i) for the process applicable to your matter.

Michael A. Winslow
1204 Cleveland Ave.
Mount Vernon, WA 98273
Ph. 360-336-3321<tel:(360)%20336-3321>
Em. Mike at winslegal.com<mailto:Mike at winslegal.com>

This message is from an attorney, so it’s confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, it’s too late to stop reading this message, but you may not use it for any improper purpose. Huge Disclaimer available upon request.

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Sharon Rutberg
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2017 3:31 PM
To: wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: [WSBAPT] lack of probate affidavit question

Hi, listmates --

Client's husband died without a will. The couple owned their home as community property and neither spouse has any children. We do not want to open estate administration for the husband (due to lack of need and privacy concerns). But we do want to transfer the wife's interest into her revocable living trust (created also for privacy concerns).

Do we need to record a document reflecting the transfer by intestate succession of the house to the wife as sole owner before she can quit claim the property into her RLT? If so, how so we do that? We have created a lack of probate affidavit attesting that surviving spouse is the rightful heir to the property. Can we record that (along with a death certificate and a REET affidavit)  to document the transfer? Do we need a deed instrument in addition?

I've heard varying things from different sources. Any clarification would be appreciated!

Best,

Sharon

Sharon C. Rutberg, Attorney at Law

Salmon Bay Law Group, PLLC

1734 NW Market St.

Seattle, WA 98107

206-735-3177, ext. 2<tel:(206)%20735-3177>

sharon at salmonbaylaw.com<mailto:sharon at salmonbaylaw.com>

Website: www.salmonbaylaw.com<http://www.salmonbaylaw.com>

Washington State Bar #47055

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