[WSBAPT] what qualifies as a cost of administration?

[Paul Neumiller]

It was my understanding (from this listserve) that the courts held that an attorney’s license is not required to act as a PR so I would not be able to charge my father’s estate (for example) my standard billable rate if I acted as PR.  If that is true, I find it difficult to believe that a court would first deny me my standard billable rate even though I am an attorney but then allow it to me anyway because that was the cost of my “lost wages.”

Is it possible that your plumber client got paid $60.00 per hour because that is at the upper end of a reasonable fee for a layperson PR and not specifically because that was his “lost wages.”  I can see making the argument that the plumber is entitled to the upper end of the reasonableness scale based on the fact that he is a plumber but not solely as an issue of “lost wages.”  There are many people in the world who make far more than commercial plumbers, are those persons entitled to their “lost wages” even though those fees would far exceed the reasonableness scale (which others on this listserve say were between $30 to $50 per hour)?

[cid:image003.jpg at 01D298DC.C9810A70]

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Randolph Petgrave
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 12:39 PM
To: WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] what qualifies as a cost of administration?

Marilyn,

Linking the fee to lost wages is a great argument to make.  I have done it several times; $30/hour is not unreasonable.  I have done $40 and $60/hr in the case of a commercial plumber who had to take time off work to clean up his father’s condo (who was also a hoarder).

Just my two cents.

Randy

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Marilyn J Kliman Law
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 11:31 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] what qualifies as a cost of administration?

Thanks, Paul. We fully intend to deduct compensation for the PR’s time. But that reminds me … was wondering what folks thought about a reasonable per hour amount. Since son lives in Maine, he unavoidably missed work for almost 2 weeks, so $30/hr or the amount of lost wages?  Opinions?


From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Paul Neumiller
Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2017 11:19 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv'
Subject: Re: [WSBAPT] what qualifies as a cost of administration?

Not sure why you are limiting the PR recovery to only reimbursement of out-of-pocket expenses.  I have seen judges award PR fees and compensation for cleaning out residences in order to prepare them for sale of $30 per hour.

[cid:image004.jpg at 01D298DC.C9810A70]

From: wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com> [mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] On Behalf Of Marilyn J Kliman Law
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 10:33 AM
To: 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com<mailto:wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>>
Subject: [WSBAPT] what qualifies as a cost of administration?

Folks –

Out-of-state sole surviving heir, son of decedent & appointed PR, had to come here to clean up hoarder mom’s house to make it saleable. He spent substantial time away from work and bookoo bucks for cleaning, hauling, etc,, in addition to the cost of  airfare. Normally, of course, it wouldn’t matter how costs were categorized as it would eventually all come out of the same pot for a sole heir.

However, DSHS has a substantial lien on the house – the only asset – likely exceeding the value of the property. They have agreed to accept a reduced percentage but, depending on what the house sells for, the DSHS recovery may eat up what’s left when it’s their turn, a la  RCW 11.76.110, leaving nothing for the son.  Seems only reasonable that, at very least, son should not end up in the negative for out-of-pocket costs. (We did negotiate the reduced lien with DSHS before advising son to even open probate vs. walking away, but son has since discovered greater debt than anticipated.)

So … I have not found any definitive law or rule as to what constitutes “costs of administration.”  Technically, is maximizing the estate value by coming here and cleaning up the house an administrative expense? My thought at this point is to submit all out-of-pocket costs as expenses and let DSHS object if they care to.

Thoughts and wisdom?

Marilyn J. Kliman, Attorney at Law
Marilyn J. Kliman Law, PLLC
510 Bell Street
Edmonds, WA 98020
206.499.0993<tel:206.499.0993>
Marilyn at MarilynJKlimanLaw.com<mailto:Marilyn at MarilynJKlimanLaw.com>
www.MarilynJKlimanLaw.com<http://www.marilynjklimanlaw.com/>
NOTICE: Information contained in this email may be confidential and/or legally protected from disclosure. Our understanding is that intended recipients consent to use of e-mail unless we are notified otherwise in writing. If you are not the intended recipient, nor an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, any unauthorized dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer.


[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>

Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>



[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif]<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>

Virus-free. www.avast.com<https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link>


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20170309/771e4cfd/attachment.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image003.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 14511 bytes
Desc: image003.jpg
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20170309/771e4cfd/image003.jpg>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: image004.jpg
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 7323 bytes
Desc: image004.jpg
URL: <http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/wsbapt/attachments/20170309/771e4cfd/image004.jpg>