[WSBAPT] Self proving affidavit/declaration - notarized?

Mon Oct 19 10:57:13 PDT 2015

Now I am confused again.  I will stick with the 2 witnesses and with the
two witnesses affidavit being notarized.

Does a Declaration for the two witnesses work or not?

James R. Doran
Attorney at Law
100 E. Pine Street -  Suite 205
Bellingham, WA 98225
(360)393-9506
jim at doranlegal.com
www.doranlegal.com

On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 10:28 AM, Dalynne Singleton <
dalynne at singletonlawgroup.net> wrote:

> Be aware that in Kitsap County, the Judges require the notary to the 2
> witness signatures.  I had the Commissioner reject my Petition for Probate
> of Will and had to find the 2 witnesses.  If you don’t do it at the time of
> signing the will and having 2 witnesses signatures, then you will have to
> get post-death which is sometimes very difficult to find the witnesses.  I
> find it much easier to do at the time of signing the Will with the
> witnesses in my office.  Since my office is just me and my paralegal, I
> usually have the person signing the Will bring a friend who is not named in
> the Will to witness OR I ask other staff in the building to assist.
>
>
>
> *RCW 11.12.020*
>
> *Requisites of wills — Foreign wills.*
>
> (1) Every will shall be in writing signed by the testator or by some other
> person under the testator's direction in the testator's presence, and shall
> be attested by two or more competent witnesses, by subscribing their names
> to the will, or by signing an affidavit that complies with RCW 11.20.020
> <http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.20.020>(2), while in the
> presence of the testator and at the testator's direction or request:
> PROVIDED, That a last will and testament, executed in the mode prescribed
> by the law of the place where executed or of the testator's domicile,
> either at the time of the will's execution or at the time of the testator's
> death, shall be deemed to be legally executed, and shall be of the same
> force and effect as if executed in the mode prescribed by the laws of this
> state.
>
>      (2) This section shall be applied to all wills, whenever executed,
> including those subject to pending probate proceedings.
>
> *RCW 11.20.020*
>
> *Application for probate — Hearing — Order — Proof — Record of testimony —
> Affidavits of attesting witnesses.*
>
> (1) Applications for the probate of a will and for letters testamentary,
> or either, may be made to the judge of the court having jurisdiction and
> the court may immediately hear the proofs and either probate or reject such
> will as the testimony may justify. Upon such hearing the court shall make
> and cause to be entered a formal order, either establishing and probating
> such will, or refusing to establish and probate the same, and such order
> shall be conclusive except in the event of a contest of such will as
> hereinafter provided. All testimony in support of the will shall be reduced
> to writing, signed by the witnesses, and certified by the judge of the
> court. If the application for probate of a will does not request the
> appointment of a personal representative and the court enters an
> adjudication of testacy establishing such will no further administration
> shall be required except as commenced pursuant to RCW 11.28.330
> <http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.28.330> or 11.28.340
> <http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=11.28.340>.
>
>      (2) In addition to the foregoing procedure for the proof of wills,
> any or all of the attesting witnesses to a will may, at the request of the
> testator or, after his or her decease, at the request of the executor or
> any person interested under it, make an affidavit before any person
> authorized to administer oaths, stating such facts as they would be
> required to testify to in court to prove such will, which affidavit may be
> written on the will or may be attached to the will or to a photographic
> copy of the will. The sworn statement of any witness so taken shall be
> accepted by the court as if it had been taken before the court.
>
>
>
> *Dalynne Singleton*
>
> [image: SingletonLawGD27aR04aP02ZL-Johnson4a_mdm]
>
> 3215 NW Lowell Street, #161
>
> Silverdale, WA  98383
>
> Phone: 360-329-4079
>
> Fax:     360-443-1259
>
> E-mail: dalynne at singletonlawgroup.net
>
> Web:    www.singletonlawgroup.net
>
>
>
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>
> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [mailto:
> wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com] *On Behalf Of *John J. Sullivan
> *Sent:* Sunday, October 18, 2015 1:56 PM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Self proving affidavit/declaration - notarized?
>
>
>
> I generally use declarations these days since our office is lean and mean.
> I haven't had a problem proving WA law in ancillary situations.
>
>
>
> I had an interesting situation last week - a will from 1960 that was
> labeled a copy, indicating the original was in the office of a now deceased
> attorney. But this was before Xerox machines, so the "copy" had original
> signatures in blue ink. Velategui accepted it as an original.
>
>
>
> John Sullivan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Oct 18, 2015, at 1:19 PM, Douglas Bratt <djbratt at mbavancouverlaw.com>
> wrote:
>
> I have done both, given the Washington statute that equates a properly
> crafted Declaration as being legally equivalent to an Affidavit.  I always
> use the Affidavit if I am involved in having the client sign in the office
> where there are plenty of potential witnesses.  However, upon occasion,
> with disabled folks, or people in the hospital, to whom I travel, I often
> choose to use the Declaration, meaning that I only have to involve one
> neighbor, or a person from down the hall in the hospital, to have the
> necessary witnesses, assuming I am to be one of the witnesses.
>
>
>
> I can echo Martin’s concerns, however, if the will gets probated in
> another state.  It is not all that much trouble (at least for
> multi-attorney offices) to always have a couple of witnesses, along with me
> serving as a Notary, that I would think that would be the practical way to
> do it, with the least probable issues with the PR getting hassled in an
> out-of-state court, by a judge in whose state the Declaration form is not
> similarly accepted in lieu of an Affidavit.
>
>
>
> I simply would not habitually do it just one way, in any circumstance.
> Each case gets analyzed as to what works best for the convenience of the
> client, given his/her personal circumstances, and me, in getting the
> signing accomplished most economically, time-wise.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> Doug Bratt
>
>
>
> Douglas J. Bratt
>
> Lawyer
>
>
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> *From:* wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com [
> mailto:wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com
> <wsbapt-bounces at lists.wsbarppt.com>] *On Behalf Of *Martin Silver
> *Sent:* Friday, October 16, 2015 10:49 AM
> *To:* WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv
> *Subject:* Re: [WSBAPT] Self proving affidavit/declaration - notarized?
>
>
>
> I haven't done a will in years, but my only concern was if the estate has
> to be probated in another jurisdiction, do you want to have to go through
> the rigmarole of proving up
> WA law.  So I went back to witness affidavits in most cases.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sherman Snow <sherman at shermansnowlaw.com>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 16, 2015 10:15 AM
>
> *To:* 'WSBA Probate & Trust Listserv' <wsbapt at lists.wsbarppt.com>
>
> *Subject:* [WSBAPT] Self proving affidavit/declaration - notarized?
>
>
>
> Happy Friday –
>
>
>
> Just curious if any of you for your wills, for the self-proving affidavit,
> use a declaration without a notary?
>
>
>
> I have seen that to satisfy RCW 11.20.020 for a self-proving affidavit for
> a will, instead of the more traditional affidavit with two witness and a
> notary, just having a declaration with the two witness signatures. Pursuant
> to RCW 9A.72.085 the witnesses need to declare under penalty of perjury
> under the law of the State of Washington true and correct…, but it seems if
> this is satisfied, no notary is required for the affidavit.
>
>
>
> Has anyone used this regularly? Any problems in probate?
>
>
>
> Thanks so much,
>
>
>
> Sherman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Snow Law PLLC
> (206) 659-2498
> 3703 S. Edmunds St. #104, Seattle WA 98118
>
> sherman at shermansnowlaw.com
>
>
>
>
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