[Vision2020] Obama Responds to Trump's Iran Pull-Out

Debi Smith debismith at moscow.com
Wed May 9 18:52:53 PDT 2018


Thank you, Sunil, for putting it in context. Vote!!! This time it is 
REALLY Important!!

Debi R-S


On 5/9/2018 4:04 PM, Sunil Ramalingam wrote:
> Darrell I’m not talking about you’re not commenting much. I don’t know 
> what you say elsewhere. I’m addressing your comment about president 
> being broken in and unhealthy way and your focus on Obama statements 
> yesterday.
>
> I completely disagree with the notion that we should be concerned 
> about Obama speaking up. About time, I say, and it wasn’t Obama that 
> did away with precedent. Precedents lie in wreckage all around us.
>
> I don’t see much value in that particular precedent. If you or Dan 
> think Obama is lying, take him to task for that. Respect for precedent 
> is a cudgel used against Democrats. There’s no reason for them to care 
> about it, Republicans  stop worrying about precedents and norms a 
> while back.
>
> And in this case in particular: Obama is supposed to follow the 
> precedent that silences him? For the guy who spread the racist lie 
> that he was not a citizen? Why should he remained silent? How do the 
> American people benefit from his silence? Silence doesn’t leave a 
> void. Trump is willing to fill that space with lies.
>
> No, it’s time for honest and accurate speech.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* keim152 at gmail.com <keim152 at gmail.com> on behalf of Darrell 
> Keim <keim153 at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 9, 2018 11:56:21 AM
> *To:* Sunil Ramalingam
> *Cc:* Dan Carscallen; vision2020
> *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Obama Responds to Trump's Iran Pull-Out
> Sunil:  If your note is directed at me not commenting much, please 
> save it.  I have commented plenty about my dislike of a variety of 
> unhealthy breaks with tradition and precedent.  Just not on this 
> particular forum.
>
> On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 11:23 AM, Sunil Ramalingam 
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     This is the unhealthy break with tradition and precedent? Not the
>     things that Trump has been saying for the last year and a half or
>     longer? What he’s been doing?
>
>     That’s like complaining about the color of the lifeboats on the
>     Titanic, and remaining silent about the more important problem
>     that there aren’t enough lifeboats .
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* keim152 at gmail.com <mailto:keim152 at gmail.com>
>     <keim152 at gmail.com <mailto:keim152 at gmail.com>> on behalf of
>     Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com <mailto:keim153 at gmail.com>>
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, May 9, 2018 11:00:19 AM
>     *To:* Sunil Ramalingam
>     *Cc:* Dan Carscallen; vision2020
>
>     *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Obama Responds to Trump's Iran Pull-Out
>     Yes, we are both talking style over substance.  Given the current
>     state of politics in our nation, style seems to trump substance in
>     importance.
>
>     We are also talking precedent being broken in a perhaps unhealthy way.
>
>     (pun unintentional but perhaps fitting)
>
>     On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 10:48 AM, Sunil Ramalingam
>     <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com <mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>
>     wrote:
>
>         You’re both talking style over substance. I’ll give you an
>         Obama choice I find beyond unseemly. His decision not to
>         prosecute torturers in the Bush Administration has allowed the
>         nomination of a war criminal for the position of head of the
>         CIA. That’s not unseemly, that’s repulsive and disgusting.
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         *From:* vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>         <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>
>         <vision2020-bounces at moscow.com
>         <mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com>> on behalf of Dan
>         Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com <mailto:areaman at moscow.com>>
>         *Sent:* Wednesday, May 9, 2018 10:34:42 AM
>         *To:* vision2020
>         *Subject:* Re: [Vision2020] Obama Responds to Trump's Iran
>         Pull-Out
>         I’m with Darrell on this.
>
>         Doesn’t matter to me who is currently in the office, the
>         previous guy commenting on his activities is a little unseemly.
>
>         I don’t recall anyone ever doing that.  Then again Grover
>         Cleveland might have, since he did serve non-concurrent
>         terms.  Of course that was just a little before my time.
>
>         DC
>
>         On May 9, 2018, at 10:22, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com
>         <mailto:keim153 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>>         Without commenting on the issue at hand, I have an observation.
>>
>>         Can anyone recall a past president so publicly
>>         rebuking/countering his successor on a major policy change?
>>
>>         On Wed, May 9, 2018 at 9:12 AM, Nicholas Gier
>>         <ngier006 at gmail.com <mailto:ngier006 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>             Former President Barack Obama released a statement after
>>             Trump withdrew the US from the Iran nuclear deal that
>>             amounted to a point by point debunking of Trump’s
>>             falsehoods about the agreement.
>>
>>             The statement provided to PoliticusUSA by Obama’s office
>>             is lengthy but important:
>>
>>             There are few issues more important to the security of
>>             the United States than the potential spread of nuclear
>>             weapons, or the potential for even more destructive war
>>             in the Middle East. That’s why the United States
>>             negotiated the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA)
>>             in the first place.
>>
>>             The reality is clear. The JCPOA is working – that is a
>>             view shared by our European allies, independent experts,
>>             and the current U.S. Secretary of Defense. The JCPOA is
>>             in America’s interest – it has significantly rolled back
>>             Iran’s nuclear program. And the JCPOA is a model for what
>>             diplomacy can accomplish – its inspections and
>>             verification regime is precisely what the United States
>>             should be working to put in place with North Korea.
>>             Indeed, at a time when we are all rooting for diplomacy
>>             with North Korea to succeed, walking away from the JCPOA
>>             risks losing a deal that accomplishes – with Iran – the
>>             very outcome that we are pursuing with the North Koreans.
>>
>>             That is why today’s announcement is so misguided. Walking
>>             away from the JCPOA turns our back on America’s closest
>>             allies, and an agreement that our country’s leading
>>             diplomats, scientists, and intelligence professionals
>>             negotiated. In a democracy, there will always be changes
>>             in policies and priorities from one Administration to the
>>             next. But the consistent flouting of agreements that our
>>             country is a party to risks eroding America’s
>>             credibility, and puts us at odds with the world’s major
>>             powers.
>>
>>             Debates in our country should be informed by facts,
>>             especially debates that have proven to be divisive. So
>>             it’s important to review several facts about the JCPOA.
>>
>>             First, the JCPOA was not just an agreement between my
>>             Administration and the Iranian government. After years of
>>             building an international coalition that could impose
>>             crippling sanctions on Iran, we reached the JCPOA
>>             together with the United Kingdom, France, Germany, the
>>             European Union, Russia, China, and Iran. It is a
>>             multilateral arms control deal, unanimously endorsed by a
>>             United Nations Security Council Resolution.
>>
>>             Second, the JCPOA has worked in rolling back Iran’s
>>             nuclear program. For decades, Iran had steadily advanced
>>             its nuclear program, approaching the point where they
>>             could rapidly produce enough fissile material to build a
>>             bomb. The JCPOA put a lid on that breakout capacity.
>>             Since the JCPOA was implemented, Iran has destroyed the
>>             core of a reactor that could have produced weapons-grade
>>             plutonium; removed two-thirds of its centrifuges (over
>>             13,000) and placed them under international monitoring;
>>             and eliminated 97 percent of its stockpile of enriched
>>             uranium – the raw materials necessary for a bomb. So by
>>             any measure, the JCPOA has imposed strict limitations on
>>             Iran’s nuclear program and achieved real results.
>>
>>             Third, the JCPOA does not rely on trust – it is rooted in
>>             the most far-reaching inspections and verification regime
>>             ever negotiated in an arms control deal. Iran’s nuclear
>>             facilities are strictly monitored. International monitors
>>             also have access to Iran’s entire nuclear supply chain,
>>             so that we can catch them if they cheat. Without the
>>             JCPOA, this monitoring and inspections regime would go away.
>>
>>             Fourth, Iran is complying with the JCPOA. That was not
>>             simply the view of my Administration. The United States
>>             intelligence community has continued to find that Iran is
>>             meeting its responsibilities under the deal, and has
>>             reported as much to Congress. So have our closest allies,
>>             and the international agency responsible for verifying
>>             Iranian compliance – the International Atomic Energy
>>             Agency (IAEA).
>>
>>             Fifth, the JCPOA does not expire. The prohibition on Iran
>>             ever obtaining a nuclear weapon is permanent. Some of the
>>             most important and intrusive inspections codified by the
>>             JCPOA are permanent. Even as some of the provisions in
>>             the JCPOA do become less strict with time, this won’t
>>             happen until ten, fifteen, twenty, or twenty-five years
>>             into the deal, so there is little reason to put those
>>             restrictions at risk today.
>>
>>             Finally, the JCPOA was never intended to solve all of our
>>             problems with Iran. We were clear-eyed that Iran engages
>>             in destabilizing behavior – including support for
>>             terrorism, and threats toward Israel and its neighbors.
>>             But that’s precisely why it was so important that we
>>             prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. Every
>>             aspect of Iranian behavior that is troubling is far more
>>             dangerous if their nuclear program is unconstrained. Our
>>             ability to confront Iran’s destabilizing behavior – and
>>             to sustain a unity of purpose with our allies – is
>>             strengthened with the JCPOA, and weakened without it.
>>
>>             Because of these facts, I believe that the decision to
>>             put the JCPOA at risk without any Iranian violation of
>>             the deal is a serious mistake. Without the JCPOA, the
>>             United States could eventually be left with a losing
>>             choice between a nuclear-armed Iran or another war in the
>>             Middle East. We all know the dangers of Iran obtaining a
>>             nuclear weapon. It could embolden an already dangerous
>>             regime; threaten our friends with destruction; pose
>>             unacceptable dangers to America’s own security; and
>>             trigger an arms race in the world’s most dangerous
>>             region. If the constraints on Iran’s nuclear program
>>             under the JCPOA are lost, we could be hastening the day
>>             when we are faced with the choice between living with
>>             that threat, or going to war to prevent it.
>>
>>             In a dangerous world, America must be able to rely in
>>             part on strong, principled diplomacy to secure our
>>             country. We have been safer in the years since we
>>             achieved the JCPOA, thanks in part to the work of our
>>             diplomats, many members of Congress, and our allies.
>>             Going forward, I hope that Americans continue to speak
>>             out in support of the kind of strong, principled,
>>             fact-based, and unifying leadership that can best secure
>>             our country and uphold our responsibilities around the
>>             globe.
>>
>>
>>                 Obama made a critical point
>>
>>             Much of Trump’s argument for killing the Iran deal was
>>             based on the false premise that the deal was a failure if
>>             it didn’t address all of the problems with Iran’s
>>             behavior, but the nuclear deal was never meant to do
>>             that. By design, it dealt with Iran’s nuclear program.
>>             Republicans have used this rhetorical device on the issue
>>             of health care, for example, as well. It is a false
>>             argument that seeks to turn something successful into a
>>             failure.
>>
>>             It is rare for a former president to come out with such a
>>             strong statement against an action taken by a current
>>             president. All evidence and even members of Trump’s own
>>             administration say that the deal was working.
>>
>>             For more discussion about this story join our Rachel
>>             Maddow and MSNBC group.
>>             <https://nam03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2F1944900445770755%2F&data=02%7C01%7C%7Cbab469f5ae8e4b87dbf808d5b5d32bc2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C636614840926930976&sdata=y0NHcNILzQOBYDGmKb%2BIRJAtwuYreYyl4bfdH19RNrI%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>             -- 
>>
>>             A society grows great when old men plant trees whose
>>             shade they know they shall never sit in.
>>
>>             -Greek proverb
>>
>>             “Enlightenment is man’s emergence from his self-imposed
>>             immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one’s
>>             understanding without guidance from another. This
>>             immaturity is self- imposed when its cause lies not in
>>             lack of understanding, but in lack of resolve and courage
>>             to use it without guidance from another. Sapere Aude!
>>             ‘Have courage to use your own understand-ing!—that is the
>>             motto of enlightenment.
>>
>>             --Immanuel Kant
>>
>>
>>
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