[Vision2020] Keeping church and state of mind separate in Moscow
Scott Dredge
scooterd408 at hotmail.com
Wed May 20 09:51:57 PDT 2015
Gary - you are correct that the whole flap started with a false accusation about local coffee house refusing to serve a gay couple and it spawned heated debate and Doug's 'what if' scenario.
Here is Doug's post from all the way back in September 2002...
http://vision2020.moscow.com/Archives/2002/0209/msg00358.html
Douglas Wilson wrote:
<So if I owned a restaurant and a homosexual couple came in, I would not
ask them if they were homosexual. But if they began behaving in such a
way as to demand my explicit or implicit approval of their lifestyle,
which my silence would provide them, would I ask them to leave? You bet I
would. >
-Scott
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Keeping church and state of mind separate in Moscow
From: moscowcares at moscow.com
Date: Wed, 20 May 2015 04:21:26 -0700
CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; paul.rumelhart at gmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
To: moscowlocksmith at gmail.com
As encouraged by that "certain group", Mr. Crabtree . . .
"EQUALITY . . . it's what's for breakfast . . . and lunch . . . and dinner . . . an' all them in-between snacks."
Have a second helpin', friend. You'll be glad you did.
Seeya at the Wingding, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
On May 20, 2015, at 03:43, Gary Crabtree <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com> wrote:
I recall when a local coffee house with ties to CC was accused of refusing to serve a homosexual couple and the stink that was created as a result. I also remember that the accusation was made up of whole cloth to further a discussion very similar to this one. I for one, would like to see your link.
A question that I would have is, if all MFC policy is to be cemented into place in a manner that is pleasing to a certain group today, why bother with paying attention to the future owners wishes and holding elections for board members at all?
g
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
Hopefully getting this topic back on track...
Paul writes:
<Why don't we wait and chastise those Christ Church-affiliated board
members *after* they propose doing whatever evil things you think they
are going to propose? That way, we're judging them based on their
actions, and not their religious affiliation and our own fears and
prejudices.>
That's fine Paul. Why don't we start with Doug crowing about how much of a privilege it was for him on Sunday night in Cd'A to be rubbing elbows with the likes of Aaron and Melissa Klein - the owners of the Oregon bakery who refused to make /sell products to a lesbian couple that would otherwise sell to heterosexual couples. Is that enough action for you to render a verdict on Doug and the bakery owners? If not, then feel free to bow out of the conversation if you can't make a call one way or the other.
It's blatantly obvious that Doug supports refusing service to gay couples. He's even written so right here on this forum that if he owned a restaurant, he wouldn't serve gay couples and would kick them off the premises. If you want a link that post, let me know and I'll provide it.
>From there, how hard is it to connect the dots? Doug preaches his brand of hate and instructs his gullible flock not serve 'homo couples' equally as married couples. Apparently there are 3 of 7 Moscow Food Co-op board members with close ties to Doug. MFC's policy presently is to treat 'same-sex couples as equals.' The board was polled regarding this policy and one member's response was 'based on his personal beliefs and the Bible he studies, he does not believe equality extends to same-sex marriage and it is not something he would personally endorse.'
Personally, I think it unwise to take a 'wait and see' attitude as Doug's minions continue to stack the deck. MFC's policy should be cemented now so that no matter how much of Doug's influence infiltrates the board that same-sex couples will continue to be treated as equals by the MFC ad infinitum.
-Scott
Date: Tue, 19 May 2015 08:04:19 -0700
From: paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
To: moscowcares at moscow.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Keeping church and state of mind separate in Moscow
I have an idea. Why don't we wait and chastise those Christ Church-affiliated board members *after* they propose doing whatever evil things you think they are going to propose? That way, we're judging them based on their actions, and not their religious affiliation and our own fears and prejudices.
Just a thought.
Paul
On Tue, May 19, 2015 at 4:40 AM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
Bill London's Debate With Christ Church's Doug Wilson (January 27, 2004)http://www.moscowcares.com/Bill_London/London_Wilson_Debate_KUOI_012704.htm
Courtesy of today's (May 19, 2015) Moscow-Pullman Daily News.
--------------------------------------Our View: Keeping church and state of mind separate in MoscowBy Lee Rozen , for the Editorial BoardBy embracing the vibe of peace, love, funky stuff and local, natural foods whenever possible, the Moscow Food Co-op has become a local institution that helps define the zeitgeist of the city.Much more than do the city's 17 fast-food joints, the co-op helps define Moscow for many of its residents - as do the old brick 1912 Center and City Hall, Tye-Dye Everything, bicycle shops, the University of Idaho, the Farmers Market, One World Cafe and East City Park's festivals.The co-op's stature as one of the defining organizations downtown has led to some angst recently that it might change - or be changed. Being a co-op, it is owned and run by its members, most of whom note who is running in the elections for its board each year and then don't bother to vote.So far, that's worked. But this year, two of the three new board members are affiliated with Christ Church. Another member of the board is, also.So what, you might ask? Is it a problem if there are a bunch of Methodists or Wiccans on the board? The Christ Church members didn't reveal their church affiliation during the election, but then neither did any other member or candidate for the board.The concern has to do with the nature of Christ Church, led by the gay-baiting Pastor Doug Wilson. The co-op's personnel policies have always been rather inclusive of nearly any lifestyle choice. Christ Church not so much. There's concern that a fourth member on the seven-member board from Christ Church might want to change those personnel policies, among other things.It's almost like Monsanto, that company of caustic chemicals and genetically modified seeds for corporate farms, suddenly had three affiliates on the co-op board. And they just hadn't thought it important to mention that connection.Wilson in the past has made statements - whether hyperbolic or not - about Moscow being the right size town because it was both capable of and worth being taken over in the course of 35 years or so. People remember.New Saint Andrews, Logos, Bucer's, Nuart and Anselm House are all also associated with the Christ Church organization. Hardly overwhelming.There are many who don't want the co-op to be next. We're among them.--------------------------------------
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
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serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
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