[Vision2020] Cruz

Paul Rumelhart paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
Thu Mar 26 15:32:04 PDT 2015


I'd like to point out that Ted Cruz got his undergrad at Princeton, then
graduated from Harvard Law School magna cum laude and was the primary
editor of the Harvard Law Review while he attended.  His professor Alan
Dershowitz was quoted as saying that Cruz was "off the charts brilliant".
He also clerked for William Rehnquist, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.

Perhaps we'd all be better of discussing the details of his political
positions rather than assuming he's a simple mouth-breather.

Paul

On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:28 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> That's far too vague Roger.  With that definition the entire cast on the
> vision2020 membership list could qualify as idiots.  Or we all could
> qualify as geniuses I suppose depending on what out-of-context snippets of
> recorded posts could be cobbled together and presented as 'evidence'.
>
> Anyhoo - if you go by IQ which is at least ballpark quantifiable, Cruz
> would need to have an IQ below 30 or so to meet the semi-measureable
> definition of idiot.  I think it's safe to say that he has an IQ that far
> exceeds that mark.  I don't know much about Ted Cruz, but I'm guessing on
> some level he's a decent and functional human being and a productive member
> of American society.  You and I probably don't align with his beliefs or
> his political stripe, but that hardly (in my opinion) is reason enough to
> tag him as in idiot.  Seems like just tagging him as 'conservative'
> provides enough information to tarnish his reputation to a vast number of
> voting (natural born or naturalized) citizens.
>
> FWIW, I don't think he has a prayer of making it through the Republican
> primaries since he doesn't meet the absolute minimum Republican
> presidential standard of being lily-white.
>
> -Scott
>
> ------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 05:08:40 +0000
> From: rhayes at frontier.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Cruz
>
>
> From a modern definition of idiot;
>
> In modern English <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language> usage,
> the terms "idiot" and "idiocy" describe an extreme folly or stupidity
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stupidity>, and its symptoms (foolish or
> stupid utterance or deed).
> Am I mistaken or is T. Cruz an idiot much like so many or today's "right
> and Tea Party" leaders who utter that which they think will appeal to the
> lowest common denominator. I am very wary of fascist tendencies from those
> who pander to and exploit the fears of people to raise themselves. A
> frightened people are a dangerous people. Are we brave, or cowards? I hope
> the latter.
>
>  *From:* "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2015 8:18 PM
> *Subject:* Vision2020 Digest, Vol 105, Issue 132
>
>
> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
>     vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>     http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>
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> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: Cruz (Ron Force)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 03:17:28 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
> To: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>, Scott Dredge
>     <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>, "rhayes at frontier.com" <rhayes at frontier.com>
> Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cruz
> Message-ID:
>     <1282841774.2249621.1427339848382.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Yes, an incorrect characterization of a champion debater and
> Princeton-Harvard graduate, clerk for the Chief Justice of the Supreme
> Court. Fresh Air had a long segment on him today: http://www.npr.org/2015/03/25/395309315/journalist-says-ted-cruzs-message-is-clear-that-compromise-is-for-losers.
> ? ?TPM Had a column on how people who were in school with him remember
> him: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/me-ted
> ...As my correspondent notes, Ted managed to distinguish himself as a
> arrogant a#@hole?at Harvard Law School, which is an amazing accomplishment
> since the competition there for that description is?intense.?..
>
> ...And this is why I've been saying since?Ted Cruz?replaced?Michele
> Bachmann?as the King of the Tea Partiers that the reaction to Cruz in the
> senate is simply the reaction Ted's gotten at least at every stage of his
> life since he arrived at college in 1988. An incredibly bright guy who's an
> arrogant jerk who basically everybody ends up hating.
> ?Ron Force
> Moscow Idaho USA
>
>
>     On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:40 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Why is it that some on the left think that anyone who disagrees with them
> is an idiot? I do not agree with every thing Cruz says but he is not an
> idiot.? I would wager that his IQ is higher that either Roger Hayes' or
> mine.
> Roger
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cruz
> From: "Scott Dredge" <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
> To: rhayes at frontier.com
> Date: 03/25/15 02:14:40
>
> I'm sure there are some out of context quotes that would make Cruz look
> ridiculous. ?Even Obama said verbatim 'I am a Muslim' which went over
> exceedingly well with Obama haters.
> I hadn't heard that Cruz 'is a very corrupt, divisive, dangerous person'
> until now. That's the downside of a complete absence of vitriolic left wing
> talk radio.
> I agree he's likely an idiot, but who amongst us all isn't an idiot?
> On Mar 24, 2015, at 1:19 PM, "rhayes at frontier.com" <rhayes at frontier.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> This discussion misses the point. I don't care if Ted Cruz is a Martian.
> The issue is that his is a very corrupt, divisive, dangerous person who
> most likely is an idiot to boot. Has anyone actually read some of the stuff
> he has said?
> From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 12:50 PM
> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 105, Issue 119
>
> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
> ??? vision2020 at moscow.com
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> ??? http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> ??? vision2020-request at moscow.com
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> ??? vision2020-owner at moscow.com
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> ? 1. Re: Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run (Sunil)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:49:48 -0700
> From: Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> Cc: vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
> Message-ID: <BAY169-W10266104A813666442805C5BD0A0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> Tom,
>
> This ain't dancing and I don't have to prove squat. That his mother was a
> US citizen is all I need.
>
> You're the one braying that he's a naturalized citizen. You're the one
> with the burden to provide proof.
>
> Put Up or Shut Up.
>
> Sunil
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:45:18 -0700
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> Tell ya what, Mr. Ramalingam -
> I'm tired of dancin' with you.? Go find another partner.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must
> learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the
> hill."
> - John Lennon?
> On Mar 24, 2015, at 12:36 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Tom,
>
> We are emphatically NOT in agreement that Ted Cruz is a "naturalized
> citizen".?
>
> Sunil
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:25:19 -0700
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> I am in agreement with you, Mr. Ramalingam, in that Ted Cruz is a
> "naturalized citizen".? This has been reviewed and accepted publicly on
> television.? No argument there.
> Ted Cruz IS NOT a "natural born citizen".
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> ?
> On Mar 24, 2015, at 12:00 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> "Articles."
>
> Boy, you sure showed me! "Articles."
>
> You're not in bed with Trump, Tom, you're romping in the gutter.
>
> Where's your evidence that Cruz had to apply for citizenship? Do you have
> his N-400 (or any predecessor form)?
>
> Look at this:
>
> http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/files/M-1051.pdf
>
> I hope it's a helpful "article."
>
> Sunil
>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
> From: moscowcares at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 11:51:01 -0700
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com
>
> No, Mr. Ramalingam.? I do not "want [to] get in bed with Donald Trump".?
> For the very FIRST TIME (and, most likely, LAST TIME), Donald Trump and I
> agree on something.
> BTW, Mr. Ramalingam:? Those "articles" you linked would have been more
> appropriately published as op/ed columns.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> ?
> On Mar 24, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Did he apply for US citizenship? Did he take a test? Did he have to take
> an oath?
>
> Your claim strikes me as balderdash. You really want get in bed with
> Donald Trump and the other Birthers?
>
> Did you read either of the articles I linked? Can you explain why they are
> wrong?
>
> Sunil
>
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 11:35:18 -0700
> To: paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
>
> Ted Cruz was born in Canada.? At that time he acquired Canadian
> citizenship.? His mother was/is a U.S. citizen.? As such, Ted Cruz acquired
> "naturalized" U.S. citizenship due to his mother's U.S. citizenship, NOT
> "natural born" citizenship.?
> Ok?
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must
> learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the
> hill."
> - John Lennon?
> On Mar 24, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Does he have a birth certificate or a naturalization certificate?
>
> Paul
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> Cruz is a "naturalized citizen", NOT a "natural born citizen" as required
> by the U.S. Constitution to run for President of the United States.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must
> learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the
> hill."
> - John Lennon?
> On Mar 24, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure why you think this strengthens your case.? It further
> suggests a categorization of citizens (those natural born and those
> naturalized).? Both are citizens.? The only difference I know of between
> them is that to be President you have to be "natural born" instead of
> "naturalized".
>
> Are you trying to say that Cruz is not a citizen?? Are you trying to say
> that he did not become a citizen at birth?? Are you trying to say that he
> was born an alien and then was naturalized?? What exactly is your thesis?
>
> Paul
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> Hmmm.
> "NATURALIZED CITIZEN. One who, being born an alien, has lawfully become a
> citizen of the United States Under the constitution and laws. He has all
> the rights of a natural born citizen, except that of being eligible as
> president or vice-president of the United States.
> http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/n039.htm
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> ?
> On Mar 23, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm not on the Supreme Court, but it seems to me that there are two ways
> to become a citizen - you either become a citizen at birth, or you become
> "naturalized" later.? The website I linked to talks about a "naturalization
> test", so it seems to me that another way of saying that you become a
> citizen at birth is that you are "natural born".
>
> Paul
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
> Mr. Rumelhart -
> Your reference addresses satisfying the citizenship requirement to vote,
> be issued a social security number, or run for congress.?
> This requirement is taken a huge step forward when running for president.?
> Hence the "natural born citizenship" stipulation of the Constitution.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must
> learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the
> hill."
> - John Lennon?
> On Mar 23, 2015, at 3:54 PM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >From a casual reading of the Constitution, "natural born" appears to mean
> that you became a citizen at birth rather than becoming "naturalized" later
> in life.? Here is a snippet from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration
> Services website on how to become a US citizen (
> http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship):
>
> "To become a citizen at birth, you must:Have
> been born in the United States or certain territories or outlying
> possessions of the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction of the
> United States; OR? ? had a parent or parents who were citizens at the time
> of your birth (if you were born abroad) and meet other requirements"
>
> I'm sure (as Sunil states) that the law is much more detailed than this,
> but that seems to be the gist of it.
> I'm not a fan of Ted Cruz (or President Obama, for that matter), but it
> seems pretty clear.
>
> Paul
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com>
> wrote:
> Ted Cruz is NOT a natural born US citizen, which makes him
> constitutionally ineligible to run for president.? It really is . . . JUST
> . . . THAT . . . SIMPLE.
> But, then, laws (constitutional and otherwise) are only as strong as those
> who enforce them!
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho?
> On Mar 23, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Do I find it worthy of much discussion? Beyond pointing out hypocrisy, no.
>
> Here's a take from someone with several connected brain cells:
>
> 'I assume liberals are not going to jump on this Ted Cruz being born in
> Canada business with the same fervor as the right's masturbatory
> obsession with Obama's birth certificate because the facts are clear: he
> is eligible to run for president.? But it cannot pass unnoted that the
> right wing spent years attacking Obama for allegedly not being a
> "natural born American" even to the extent that they claimed he faked
> his birth certificate. But the fact is that he was born in the US and it
> wouldn't have mattered if he hadn't been since his mother was American,
> just like Ted Cruz's.'
>
> Read more here:
>
> http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-canadian-candidate.html
>
> Sunil
>
> From: thansen at moscow.com
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 08:38:47 -0700
> To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
>
> Jus' what I expected from Mr. Dredge . . . mindless rhetoric . . . no
> thought-out, open-for-discussion response . . . something that would open
> the proverbial floor to debate among those of us with connected brain cells.
> Does ANYBODY on this list care to discuss Ted Cruz' citizenship and how it
> impacts his candidacy for President of the United States . . . or is it as
> simple as I Initially suggested?
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must
> learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the
> hill."
> - John Lennon?
> On Mar 23, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> <Where are the "birthers" at?>
> It looks like you're already doing a good job of following their lead.
>
>
> On Mar 23, 2015, at 7:33 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
> Where are the "birthers" at??
> Ted Cruz was born . . . in Canada . . . in a Canadian hospital . . . to a
> US-born mother and a Cuban father.
> What is your definition of "natural born citizen"?
> Courtesy of today's (March 23, 2015) Spokesman-Review.
> --------------------------------------Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential
> runWASHINGTON ? Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz has become the first major
> candidate for president, kicking off what?s expected to be a rush over the
> next few weeks of more than a dozen White House hopefuls into the 2016
> campaign. ?I am running for president and I hope to earn your support,? the
> tea party favorite said in a Twitter message posted just after midnight
> today.Cruz will formally launch his bid during a speech this morning at
> Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, choosing to begin his campaign
> at the Christian college founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell rather than his
> home state of Texas or the early voting states of Iowa and New Hampshire.
> It?s a fitting setting for Cruz, a 44-year-old tea party darling whose
> entry into the 2016 campaign drew cheers Sunday among fellow conservatives.
> Amy Kremer, the former head of the Tea Party Express, said that the
> Republican pool of candidates ?will t!
> ake a quantum leap forward? with Cruz?s announcement, adding that it ?will
> excite the base in a way we haven?t seen in years.? Elected for the first
> time just three years ago, when he defeated an establishment figure in
> Texas politics with decades of experience in office, Cruz has hinted openly
> for more than a year that he wants to move down Pennsylvania Avenue from
> the Senate into the White House. In an online video promoted on his Twitter
> account, Cruz offered a preview of his campaign?s message. ?It?s a time for
> truth, a time to rise to the challenge, just as Americans have always done.
> I believe in America and her people, and I believe we can stand up and
> restore our promise,? Cruz said as images of farm fields, city skylines and
> American landmarks and symbols played in the background. ?It?s going to
> take a new generation of courageous conservatives to help make America
> great again, and I?m ready to stand with you to lead the fight.? While Cruz
> is the first Republican t!
> o declare his candidacy, he is all but certain to be followed by several
> big names in the GOP, including former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, Wisconsin
> Gov. Scott Walker and two Senate colleagues, Kentucky?s Rand Paul and
> Florida?s Marco Rubio. The Houston Chronicle first reported details about
> Cruz?s campaign launch. His move puts him into pole position among those
> whose strategy to win the nomination counts on courting the party?s most
> conservative voters, who hold an outsized influence in the Republican
> nominating process. ?Cruz is going to make it tough for all of the
> candidates who are fighting to emerge as the champion of the
> anti-establishment wing of the party,? said GOP strategist Kevin Madden.
> ?That is starting to look like quite a scrum where lots of candidates will
> be throwing some sharp elbows.? Following his election to the Senate in
> 2012, the former Texas solicitor general quickly established himself as an
> uncompromising conservative willing to take on Democrats and !
> Republicans alike. He won praise from tea party activists in 2013 for !
> leading the GOP?s push to partially shut the federal government during an
> unsuccessful bid to block money for President Barack Obama?s health care
> law.--------------------------------------
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com
> Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
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> List services made available by First Step Internet,
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> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 105, Issue 132
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