[Vision2020] Cruz

Wed Mar 25 23:28:30 PDT 2015

That's far too vague Roger.  With that definition the entire cast on the vision2020 membership list could qualify as idiots.  Or we all could qualify as geniuses I suppose depending on what out-of-context snippets of recorded posts could be cobbled together and presented as 'evidence'.

Anyhoo - if you go by IQ which is at least ballpark quantifiable, Cruz would need to have an IQ below 30 or so to meet the semi-measureable definition of idiot.  I think it's safe to say that he has an IQ that far exceeds that mark.  I don't know much about Ted Cruz, but I'm guessing on some level he's a decent and functional human being and a productive member of American society.  You and I probably don't align with his beliefs or his political stripe, but that hardly (in my opinion) is reason enough to tag him as in idiot.  Seems like just tagging him as 'conservative' provides enough information to tarnish his reputation to a vast number of voting (natural born or naturalized) citizens.

FWIW, I don't think he has a prayer of making it through the Republican primaries since he doesn't meet the absolute minimum Republican presidential standard of being lily-white.

-Scott

Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 05:08:40 +0000
From: rhayes at frontier.com
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Cruz

>From a modern definition of idiot;
In modern English usage, the terms "idiot" and "idiocy" describe an extreme folly or stupidity, and its symptoms (foolish or stupid utterance or deed).Am I mistaken or is T. Cruz an idiot much like so many or today's "right and Tea Party" leaders who utter that which they think will appeal to the lowest common denominator. I am very wary of fascist tendencies from those who pander to and exploit the fears of people to raise themselves. A frightened people are a dangerous people. Are we brave, or cowards? I hope the latter. 
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   1. Re: Cruz (Ron Force)

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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 26 Mar 2015 03:17:28 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
To: lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com>, Scott Dredge
    <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>, "rhayes at frontier.com" <rhayes at frontier.com>
Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cruz
Message-ID:
    <1282841774.2249621.1427339848382.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
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Yes, an incorrect characterization of a champion debater and Princeton-Harvard graduate, clerk for the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court. Fresh Air had a long segment on him today: http://www.npr.org/2015/03/25/395309315/journalist-says-ted-cruzs-message-is-clear-that-compromise-is-for-losers. ? ?TPM Had a column on how people who were in school with him remember him: http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/me-ted
...As my correspondent notes, Ted managed to distinguish himself as a arrogant a#@hole?at Harvard Law School, which is an amazing accomplishment since the competition there for that description is?intense.?..

...And this is why I've been saying since?Ted Cruz?replaced?Michele Bachmann?as the King of the Tea Partiers that the reaction to Cruz in the senate is simply the reaction Ted's gotten at least at every stage of his life since he arrived at college in 1988. An incredibly bright guy who's an arrogant jerk who basically everybody ends up hating.
?Ron Force
Moscow Idaho USA 

     On Wednesday, March 25, 2015 5:40 PM, lfalen <lfalen at turbonet.com> wrote:

 Why is it that some on the left think that anyone who disagrees with them is an idiot? I do not agree with every thing Cruz says but he is not an idiot.? I would wager that his IQ is higher that either Roger Hayes' or mine.
Roger

-----Original Message-----
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Cruz
From: "Scott Dredge" <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: rhayes at frontier.com
Date: 03/25/15 02:14:40

I'm sure there are some out of context quotes that would make Cruz look ridiculous. ?Even Obama said verbatim 'I am a Muslim' which went over exceedingly well with Obama haters.
I hadn't heard that Cruz 'is a very corrupt, divisive, dangerous person' until now. That's the downside of a complete absence of vitriolic left wing talk radio.
I agree he's likely an idiot, but who amongst us all isn't an idiot?
On Mar 24, 2015, at 1:19 PM, "rhayes at frontier.com" <rhayes at frontier.com> wrote:

This discussion misses the point. I don't care if Ted Cruz is a Martian. The issue is that his is a very corrupt, divisive, dangerous person who most likely is an idiot to boot. Has anyone actually read some of the stuff he has said?
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? 1. Re: Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run (Sunil)

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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:49:48 -0700
From: Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
Cc: vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
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Tom,

This ain't dancing and I don't have to prove squat. That his mother was a US citizen is all I need.

You're the one braying that he's a naturalized citizen. You're the one with the burden to provide proof.

Put Up or Shut Up.

Sunil

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:45:18 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com

Tell ya what, Mr. Ramalingam -
I'm tired of dancin' with you.? Go find another partner.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon?
On Mar 24, 2015, at 12:36 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:

Tom,

We are emphatically NOT in agreement that Ted Cruz is a "naturalized citizen".?

Sunil

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 12:25:19 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com

I am in agreement with you, Mr. Ramalingam, in that Ted Cruz is a "naturalized citizen".? This has been reviewed and accepted publicly on television.? No argument there.
Ted Cruz IS NOT a "natural born citizen".

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
?
On Mar 24, 2015, at 12:00 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:

"Articles."

Boy, you sure showed me! "Articles."

You're not in bed with Trump, Tom, you're romping in the gutter.

Where's your evidence that Cruz had to apply for citizenship? Do you have his N-400 (or any predecessor form)?

Look at this:

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/USCIS/files/M-1051.pdf

I hope it's a helpful "article."

Sunil

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run
From: moscowcares at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 11:51:01 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com

No, Mr. Ramalingam.? I do not "want [to] get in bed with Donald Trump".? For the very FIRST TIME (and, most likely, LAST TIME), Donald Trump and I agree on something.
BTW, Mr. Ramalingam:? Those "articles" you linked would have been more appropriately published as op/ed columns.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
?
On Mar 24, 2015, at 11:39 AM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:

Did he apply for US citizenship? Did he take a test? Did he have to take an oath?

Your claim strikes me as balderdash. You really want get in bed with Donald Trump and the other Birthers?

Did you read either of the articles I linked? Can you explain why they are wrong?

Sunil

From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 11:35:18 -0700
To: paul.rumelhart at gmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run

Ted Cruz was born in Canada.? At that time he acquired Canadian citizenship.? His mother was/is a U.S. citizen.? As such, Ted Cruz acquired "naturalized" U.S. citizenship due to his mother's U.S. citizenship, NOT "natural born" citizenship.?
Ok?
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon?
On Mar 24, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com> wrote:

Does he have a birth certificate or a naturalization certificate?

Paul

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:22 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
Cruz is a "naturalized citizen", NOT a "natural born citizen" as required by the U.S. Constitution to run for President of the United States.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon?
On Mar 24, 2015, at 11:18 AM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not sure why you think this strengthens your case.? It further suggests a categorization of citizens (those natural born and those naturalized).? Both are citizens.? The only difference I know of between them is that to be President you have to be "natural born" instead of "naturalized".

Are you trying to say that Cruz is not a citizen?? Are you trying to say that he did not become a citizen at birth?? Are you trying to say that he was born an alien and then was naturalized?? What exactly is your thesis?

Paul

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 10:25 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
Hmmm.
"NATURALIZED CITIZEN. One who, being born an alien, has lawfully become a citizen of the United States Under the constitution and laws. He has all the rights of a natural born citizen, except that of being eligible as president or vice-president of the United States.
http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/n039.htm
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
?
On Mar 23, 2015, at 4:12 PM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not on the Supreme Court, but it seems to me that there are two ways to become a citizen - you either become a citizen at birth, or you become "naturalized" later.? The website I linked to talks about a "naturalization test", so it seems to me that another way of saying that you become a citizen at birth is that you are "natural born".

Paul

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:03 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
Mr. Rumelhart -
Your reference addresses satisfying the citizenship requirement to vote, be issued a social security number, or run for congress.?
This requirement is taken a huge step forward when running for president.? Hence the "natural born citizenship" stipulation of the Constitution.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon?
On Mar 23, 2015, at 3:54 PM, Paul Rumelhart <paul.rumelhart at gmail.com> wrote:

>From a casual reading of the Constitution, "natural born" appears to mean that you became a citizen at birth rather than becoming "naturalized" later in life.? Here is a snippet from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services website on how to become a US citizen (http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship):

"To become a citizen at birth, you must:Have
been born in the United States or certain territories or outlying
possessions of the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction of the
United States; OR? ? had a parent or parents who were citizens at the time of your birth (if you were born abroad) and meet other requirements"

I'm sure (as Sunil states) that the law is much more detailed than this, but that seems to be the gist of it.
I'm not a fan of Ted Cruz (or President Obama, for that matter), but it seems pretty clear.

Paul

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
Ted Cruz is NOT a natural born US citizen, which makes him constitutionally ineligible to run for president.? It really is . . . JUST . . . THAT . . . SIMPLE.
But, then, laws (constitutional and otherwise) are only as strong as those who enforce them!

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho?
On Mar 23, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Sunil <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:

Do I find it worthy of much discussion? Beyond pointing out hypocrisy, no.

Here's a take from someone with several connected brain cells:

'I assume liberals are not going to jump on this Ted Cruz being born in
Canada business with the same fervor as the right's masturbatory
obsession with Obama's birth certificate because the facts are clear: he
is eligible to run for president.? But it cannot pass unnoted that the
right wing spent years attacking Obama for allegedly not being a
"natural born American" even to the extent that they claimed he faked
his birth certificate. But the fact is that he was born in the US and it wouldn't have mattered if he hadn't been since his mother was American, just like Ted Cruz's.'

Read more here:

http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/2015/03/the-canadian-candidate.html

Sunil

From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 08:38:47 -0700
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential run

Jus' what I expected from Mr. Dredge . . . mindless rhetoric . . . no thought-out, open-for-discussion response . . . something that would open the proverbial floor to debate among those of us with connected brain cells.
Does ANYBODY on this list care to discuss Ted Cruz' citizenship and how it impacts his candidacy for President of the United States . . . or is it as simple as I Initially suggested?

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon?
On Mar 23, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:

<Where are the "birthers" at?>
It looks like you're already doing a good job of following their lead.

On Mar 23, 2015, at 7:33 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

Where are the "birthers" at??
Ted Cruz was born . . . in Canada . . . in a Canadian hospital . . . to a US-born mother and a Cuban father.
What is your definition of "natural born citizen"?
Courtesy of today's (March 23, 2015) Spokesman-Review.
--------------------------------------Ted Cruz launches 2016 presidential runWASHINGTON ? Texas Republican Sen. Ted Cruz has become the first major candidate for president, kicking off what?s expected to be a rush over the next few weeks of more than a dozen White House hopefuls into the 2016 campaign. ?I am running for president and I hope to earn your support,? the tea party favorite said in a Twitter message posted just after midnight today.Cruz will formally launch his bid during a speech this morning at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia, choosing to begin his campaign at the Christian college founded by the Rev. Jerry Falwell rather than his home state of Texas or the early voting states of Iowa and New Hampshire. It?s a fitting setting for Cruz, a 44-year-old tea party darling whose entry into the 2016 campaign drew cheers Sunday among fellow conservatives. Amy Kremer, the former head of the Tea Party Express, said that the Republican pool of candidates ?will t!
ake a quantum leap forward? with Cruz?s announcement, adding that it ?will excite the base in a way we haven?t seen in years.? Elected for the first time just three years ago, when he defeated an establishment figure in Texas politics with decades of experience in office, Cruz has hinted openly for more than a year that he wants to move down Pennsylvania Avenue from the Senate into the White House. In an online video promoted on his Twitter account, Cruz offered a preview of his campaign?s message. ?It?s a time for truth, a time to rise to the challenge, just as Americans have always done. I believe in America and her people, and I believe we can stand up and restore our promise,? Cruz said as images of farm fields, city skylines and American landmarks and symbols played in the background. ?It?s going to take a new generation of courageous conservatives to help make America great again, and I?m ready to stand with you to lead the fight.? While Cruz is the first Republican t!
o declare his candidacy, he is all but certain to be followed by several big names in the GOP, including former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker and two Senate colleagues, Kentucky?s Rand Paul and Florida?s Marco Rubio. The Houston Chronicle first reported details about Cruz?s campaign launch. His move puts him into pole position among those whose strategy to win the nomination counts on courting the party?s most conservative voters, who hold an outsized influence in the Republican nominating process. ?Cruz is going to make it tough for all of the candidates who are fighting to emerge as the champion of the anti-establishment wing of the party,? said GOP strategist Kevin Madden. ?That is starting to look like quite a scrum where lots of candidates will be throwing some sharp elbows.? Following his election to the Senate in 2012, the former Texas solicitor general quickly established himself as an uncompromising conservative willing to take on Democrats and !
 Republicans alike. He won praise from tea party activists in 2013 for !
leading the GOP?s push to partially shut the federal government during an unsuccessful bid to block money for President Barack Obama?s health care law.--------------------------------------

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