[Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law

Fri May 23 13:09:21 PDT 2014

All I see here is an irrational fear of guns.

Let's assume that we can divide the world up into two different types of people, those who are about to embark upon a murder-spree that will end with their own suicide (MS) and those who are just normal people (NP).  Let's further assume that we can also divide the same set of people into those who have a concealed carry permit (CC) and those who don't (NC).  You have four combinations:

NP | NC - normal people without an enhanced concealed carry permit (we'll lump the retired police officers in the CC pool)
NP | CC - normal people with an enhanced concealed carry permit or a retired police officer
MS | NC - someone about to go on a rampage who does not have a permit and
MS | CC - someone about to go on a rampage who does have such a permit

For all intents and purposes, you can consider the last two groups in the same way.  It's unlikely that someone about to kill total strangers will abide by the University's weapons policy.  So now you have someone on a murder-spree who has victims to choose from in both the NP | NC and NP | CC groups.  Before, only the NP | NC group existed.  The only thing this law changes is the addition of the NP | CC group.  They now have the ability to put up a defense against the MS groups.  That's a win as I see it.

I don't buy the implied logic that a normal person will immediately turn into a spree shooter because they have now qualified for an enhanced concealed carry permit.

Paul

________________________________
 From: Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
To: 'Moscow Vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature,	Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law

Ahh, but the militarization of campus through arming everyone else who wants to be armed is just peachy fine with you?

Ridiculous.

And, as for your faith in “retired” cops and anyone else taking a silly class, seriously?!?!  Do you actually keep your head buried in the sand all the time or just when it comes to national news stories about shootings by “retired” cops, military, and others who’ve taken classes??

Ridiculous.

Saundra

From:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 8:46 AM
To: Tom Hansen
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law

Um... no?  

I thought I was suggesting that the militarization of campus security was not the correct direction to take on this issue.

Paul

________________________________

From:Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 8:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law

Are you suggesting, Mr. Rumelhart, that, as the new law goes into affect, it should be considered acceptable behavior for somebody who expresses a desire to commit suicide to bring a handgun on campus, conceivably to kill others before taking his/her own life?
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" 
http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On May 23, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

>I believe that's the point I was trying to make.  It can happen now.  Regardless, is the correct response really to militarize campus security?  That seems like an awfully statist approach to me.
> 
>Paul
> 
>
>________________________________
>
>From:Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
>Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
>Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:42 AM
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law
> 
>In my opinion, NIC is not "freaking out", since an individual, who was "talking about dying and not being afraid to die", was recently arrested on campus with a gun.
> 
>http://www.khq.com/story/24685956/man-with-gun-arrested-on-north-idaho-college-campus
>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> 
>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>http://www.MoscowCares.com
>  
>Tom Hansen
>Moscow, Idaho
> 
>"There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
> 
>- John Lennon
>  
>
>On May 23, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>In my personal opinion, the University of Idaho appears to be taking a rational approach to this while NIC appears to be freaking out about it.  Bullet proof vests?  Really?  Arming their security personnel?  If a few retired police officers and enhanced concealed carry permit holders frighten them so much I almost hate to bring up the thought that criminals don't necessarily follow the gun laws on campuses and that there might be people with guns on campus RIGHT NOW!  Let's hope that the NIC leadership doesn't read this.  Tanks are expensive.
>>
>>Paul
>>
>>On 05/23/2014 04:24 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>>Courtesy of today's (May 23, 2014) Spokesman-Review.
>>> 
>>>-----------------------------------
>>> 
>>>After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law
>>>Public colleges and universities in Idaho are getting ready to comply with a new state law they strongly opposed: allowing concealed weapons to be carried on campus.
>>>The law takes effect July 1 and applies to people with an enhanced license to carry concealed weapons, along with retired law enforcement officers. College leaders universally opposed the law, but pro-gun rights lawmakers pushed it through the Legislature this year.
>>>Now college administrators and campus security departments are preparing for the new reality: guns in lecture halls, labs, offices, cafeterias – everywhere but dormitories and entertainment venues with seating for more than 1,000, like stadiums and auditoriums.
>>>“We intend to follow the law. Really we don’t discuss the merits of the law. That was done, the law passed. We’re talking about implementation,” said Matt Dorschel, executive director of public safety and security at the University of Idaho in Moscow.
>>>Higher education leaders are revising campus weapons policies to comply with the new law, although bans on openly carrying guns are expected to remain in effect.
>>>Some colleges also plan to beef up their security. North Idaho College in Coeur d’Alene will provide its security officers with bulletproof vests plus training related to concealed weapon laws, and it may expand its seven-person security force by one full-time and one part-time position.
>>>NIC also is mulling whether to arm its security workers for the first time, said Alex Harris, director of student development.
>>>“I don’t know if we’ll go that direction, but it’s definitely out there and we’re considering it,” Harris said.
>>>Another option, he said, is to work with the Coeur d’Alene Police Department to station a school resource officer on campus, similar to the officers present in middle and high schools.
>>>All of these measures are unforeseen expenses at a time of budget cuts due to falling enrollment, Harris said. NIC’s enrollment this year dropped 11 percent from the previous school year – a trend that corresponds to the improving economy.
>>>The vests will cost about $8,000, and arming and training security officers would cost $10,000 a year. The new security officers, or a school resource officer, would cost about $60,000 a year.
>>>“The budget process this year, without this, has been difficult for the campus as a whole,” Harris said. “It does make for some tough decisions.”
>>>The 12,000-student University of Idaho anticipates no significant changes for its security force. The Moscow Police Department can respond quickly to emergencies on campus, and a university task force implementing the new law is not likely to recommend arming campus security, Dorschel said.
>>>“We don’t think that anything about the law would impact our need to have other armed responders on campus,” he said.
>>>NIC’s College Senate, which includes faculty, staff and students, approved new language for the school’s weapons policy last week. The president’s Cabinet is expected to take the changes to the board of trustees Wednesday, and the board will vote on the changes by the end of June.
>>>“The policy is the easy part because basically we just have to make sure we are abiding by the new state law,” Harris said.
>>>The law allows colleges to continue to prohibit guns in dormitories and public entertainment venues with a seating capacity of at least 1,000. At NIC, that covers three buildings: the student residence hall, Christianson Gymnasium and the Schuler Performing Arts Center in Boswell Hall.
>>>It’s not clear yet if the new law also extends to college facilities off campus. For NIC, that includes its Workforce Training Center in Post Falls and satellite centers in Sandpoint, Bonners Ferry and Kellogg. NIC is awaiting a legal opinion on that.
>>>The UI task force is focused on updating the university policy on weapons, such as identifying which buildings would remain off-limits to guns, Dorschel said. That includes residence halls for about 2,000 students, Memorial Gymnasium, the Kibbie Dome and a ballroom in the student union building.
>>>The task force also is looking at whether to provide more places for licensed weapons holders to store their guns at times they cannot carry them. And the group is exploring whether employees may ask someone if they are carrying a concealed weapon.
>>>“We will make it clear that permit holders are not required to disclose their status as a concealed carry permit holder to another employee,” Dorschel said.
>>>Both colleges will distribute answers to common questions about the new law, such as whether one should alert authorities if they see a gun.
>>>“In general, we don’t want people to hesitate or to assume,” Harris said. “We’re responsible for the safety of our students and our employees, and if that requires us having an uncomfortable conversation with someone who has a permit, then we’ll do it.”
>>>The responsibilities of license holders to keep their weapons concealed, and whether the law extends to off-campus activities, are other points colleges will attempt to address.
>>>“We want to make sure we don’t ignore questions that we get from our community about how this works in practice,” Dorschel said.
>>>People have mixed feelings about guns on campus, Harris said. Some believe the law will enhance safety because those who are permitted to carry guns may be able to respond to a threat, while others worry that more armed responders will only complicate the job of police and security officers.
>>>Also, some employees have told the college they may be more inclined to request a security officer attend difficult conversations, such as terminating an employee or talking with a student who is failing a class, he said.
>>>“I think it’s a matter of taking the temperature once this goes into effect and we start the fall semester to see what things we need to address and how,” Harris said.
>>>--------------------
>>>North Idaho College security officer Kelly Hopkins patrols NIC Beach on Wednesday. The college is equipping its security officers with bulletproof vests and is considering arming them for the first time – unforeseen expenses during falling enrollment and budget cuts.
>>><mime-attachment.jpg>
>>>-----------------------------------
>>>Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>> 
>>>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>>>http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>>  
>>>Tom Hansen
>>>Moscow, Idaho
>>> 
>>>"There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>>>But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>>>If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>> 
>>>- John Lennon
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>> 
> 
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