[Vision2020] Guns on campus
Tom Hansen
thansen at moscow.com
Fri May 23 12:59:34 PDT 2014
Exactly, Rose.
That would be like . . . when Wally Steed, in response to a question presented to city council candidates at the 1912 Center (last October) asking that they explain what they each have done for racial equality, he explained what it was like for him to grow up in Mississippi during the 1950s . . .
http://youtu.be/sGOOy6QTehQ
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
http://www.MoscowCares.com
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still.
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
> On May 23, 2014, at 12:40 PM, "Rosemary Huskey" <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com> wrote:
>
> Only if they are men. Kirker men love their guns.
> Rose
> PS I’m not sure what kind of “higher learning” is taking place at NSA given their perspective on human rights for all (including women and GLBT people), the Confederacy, global warming, arranged marriages for pedophiles, a deep, insatiable longing for theocratic government (in place of democracy), and a firm belief in a younger than 10,000 year old earth shared jointly by dinosaurs and people. Based on the preceding issues, I find NSA much less an institution of higher learning and more like a trip to the Magic Kingdom.
>
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of rhayes at frontier.com
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 12:04 PM
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Guns on campus
>
> I have a question. Where does the "other" Moscow institution of higher learning (New Saint Andrews) stand on guns on their campus? Are they just peachy about their students bringing their "toys" to class?
>
> From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:52 AM
> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 95, Issue 160
>
> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses
> adapting policies to new gun law (Saundra Lund)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 23 May 2014 11:52:05 -0700
> From: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> To: "'Tom Hansen'" <thansen at moscow.com>
> Cc: 'Moscow Vision 2020' <vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college
> campuses adapting policies to new gun law
> Message-ID: <26ad01cf76b8$1851fc80$48f5f580$@ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Tom, I suggest not wasting your time on little Tucker because critical thinking clearly isn?t ?his? strong suit as evidenced by this phone meme he posted back in October ? he clearly belongs in the group that thinks being a rank liar is good for America. Too bad for him the military wouldn?t want him:
>
>
>
>
>
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Tucker Goodwin
> Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2013 4:47 PM
> To: Moscow Vision 2020
> Subject: [Vision2020] Freedom is not free
>
>
>
>
>
> FREEDOM IS NOT FREE........
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Since we are not going to get gasoline back to $1.50 per gallon and coffee to $2.00 per pound maybe this would be a solution we could live with.
>
> DIVORCE AGREEMENT -- This is so incredibly well-put, and I can hardly believe it's by a young person, a student!! Whatever he runs for, I'll vote for him!
> * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
>
>
> Dear American liberals, leftists, social progressives, socialists, regressive, Marxists, and Obama supporters, et. al.:
>
>
>
> We have stuck together since the late 1950s for the sake of the kids, but the whole of this latest election process has made me realize that I want a divorce. I know we tolerated each other for many years for the sake of future generations, but sadly, this relationship has clearly run its course.
>
>
>
> Our two ideological sides of America cannot and will not ever agree on what is right for us all, so let's just end it on friendly terms. We can smile and chalk it up to irreconcilable differences and go our own way.
>
>
>
> Here is a model separation agreement:
>
>
>
> 1. Our two groups can equitably divide up the country by land mass, each taking a similar portion. That will be the difficult part, but I am sure our two sides can come to a friendly agreement. After that, it should be relatively easy. Our respective representatives can effortlessly divide other assets since both sides had such distinct and disparate tastes.
>
>
>
> 2. We don't like redistributive taxes, so you can keep them.
>
>
>
> 3. You are welcome to the liberal judges and the ACLU.
>
>
>
> 4. Since you hate guns and war, we'll take our firearms, the cops, the NRA, and the military.
>
>
>
> 5. We'll take the nasty, smelly oil industry and you can go with wind, solar, and bio-diesel.
>
>
>
> 6. You can keep Oprah, Michael Moore, and Rosie O'Donnell. You are, however, responsible for finding a bio-diesel vehicle big enough to move all three of them.
>
>
>
> 7. We'll keep capitalism, greedy corporations, pharmaceutical companies, Wal-Mart, and Wall Street.
>
>
>
> 8. You can have your beloved lifelong welfare dwellers, food stamps, homeless homeboys, hippies, druggies, and illegal aliens.
>
>
>
> 9. We'll keep the hot Alaskan hockey moms, greedy CEO's and rednecks.
>
>
>
> 10. We'll keep the Bibles and give you NBC and Hollywood .
>
>
>
> 11. You can make nice with Iran and Palestine and we'll retain the right to invade and hammer places that threaten us.
>
>
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> 12. You can have the peace-niks and war protesters. When our allies or our way of life are under assault, we'll help provide them security.
>
>
>
> 13. We'll keep our Judeo-Christian values.
>
>
>
> 14. You are welcome to Islam, Scientology, Humanism, political correctness, and Shirley McLain. You can also have the U.N., but we will no longer be paying the bill.
>
>
>
> 15. We'll keep the SUV's, pickup trucks, and oversized luxury cars. You can take every Subaru station wagon you can find.
>
>
>
> 16. You can give everyone healthcare if you can find any practicing doctors..
>
>
>
> 17. We'll continue to believe healthcare is an earned luxury and not a right.
>
>
>
> 18. We'll keep "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" and "The National Anthem."
>
>
>
> 19. I'm sure you'll be happy to substitute "Imagine", "I'd Like to Teach the World to Sing", "Kum Ba Ya," or "We Are the World".
>
>
>
> 20. We'll practice trickledown economics and you can continue to give trickle up poverty your best shot.
>
>
>
> 21. Since it often so offends you, we'll keep our history, our name and our constitution and our flag.
>
>
>
> 22. Would you agree to this? If so, please pass it along to other like-minded liberal and conservative patriots and if you do not agree, just hit delete. In the spirit of friendly parting, I'll bet you answer which one of us will need whose help in 15 years.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> John J. Wall
>
>
> Law Student and an American
>
>
>
> P.S.: Also, please take Ted Turner, Sean Penn, Martin Sheen, Barbara Streisand, and Jane Fonda with you.
>
>
>
> P.S.S..: And you won't have to "Press 1 for English" when you call our country.
>
>
>
> Forward this every time you get it! Let's keep this going; maybe some of it will start sinking in!
>
> **If you can't stand behind our Military, Please feel free to stand in front of them! **
>
>
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>
>
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Tom Hansen
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 11:43 AM
> To: Tucker Goodwin
> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law
>
>
>
> So . . .
>
>
>
> Allowing guns on campus will solve this problem? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
>
>
>
> That's like saying that lowering the drinking age will reduce drunk driving.
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
>
>
>
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>
> <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
>
>
> Tom Hansen
>
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
>
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
>
>
>
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>
>
> On May 23, 2014, at 11:30 AM, Tucker Goodwin <tuckman8822 at yahoo.com <mailto:tuckman8822 at yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
> Yes, Mr. Hansen I can wait.
>
>
>
> I agree with you that there is more opportunity for things to happen. However, no matter what the law is your always going to have bad people doing bad things. So, why do the good people of Moscow have to suffer because of a small group of not so good people of Moscow?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 23, 2014 11:21 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> For one thing, Mr. Goodwin . . .
>
>
>
> Campus security would find it easier to identify the bad guys. They would be the ones WITH THE GUNS.
>
>
>
> Another thing . . .
>
>
>
> As weapons are allowed on campus, but not allowed in dorms (billeting quarters owned and maintained by the university), those students living in fraternities and sororitues will find it easier to carry weapons to and from campus, as sororities and fraternities are privately owned.
>
>
>
> This, also, could open a whole new "bag of worms" in town. Students residing off-campus will also find it easier to carry weapons to and from their off-campus residence to and from campus.
>
>
>
> As I said before . . . kinda adds a whole new dimension to Rush Week, huh? And how 'bout them jello-shot and other drinking competitions at the Champions tavern. I can hardly wait for their new year's party. Can you?
>
>
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
>
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>
> <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
>
>
> Tom Hansen
>
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
>
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>
>
> On May 23, 2014, at 10:56 AM, Tucker Goodwin <tuckman8822 at yahoo.com <mailto:tuckman8822 at yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
> Well Mr. Hansen, person that is a good citizen and abides by the law will more then likely fallow the rules and laws that are in place. Here is a question for you, if the law was the other way and you could not have a hand gun on campus, what is going to stop the person from coming on campus to commit suicide and kill people. NOTHING!!!!!!
>
>
>
> On Friday, May 23, 2014 9:06 AM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Mr. Rumelhart -
>
>
>
> I don't dance. I suggest you find another partner.
>
>
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
>
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>
> <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
>
>
> Tom Hansen
>
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
>
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>
>
> On May 23, 2014, at 8:46 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> Um... no?
>
>
>
> I thought I was suggesting that the militarization of campus security was not the correct direction to take on this issue.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> >
> To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> >
> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> >
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 8:38 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law
>
>
>
> Are you suggesting, Mr. Rumelhart, that, as the new law goes into affect, it should be considered acceptable behavior for somebody who expresses a desire to commit suicide to bring a handgun on campus, conceivably to kill others before taking his/her own life?
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
>
>
> "Moscow Cares"
>
> <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
>
>
> Tom Hansen
>
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
>
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>
>
> On May 23, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> I believe that's the point I was trying to make. It can happen now. Regardless, is the correct response really to militarize campus security? That seems like an awfully statist approach to me.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com <mailto:thansen at moscow.com> >
> To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> >
> Cc: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com <mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> >
> Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:42 AM
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law
>
>
>
> In my opinion, NIC is not "freaking out", since an individual, who was "talking about dying and not being afraid to die", was recently arrested on campus with a gun.
>
>
>
> http://www.khq.com/story/24685956/man-with-gun-arrested-on-north-idaho-college-campus
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
>
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>
> <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
>
>
> Tom Hansen
>
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
>
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>
>
> On May 23, 2014, at 6:54 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com <mailto:godshatter at yahoo.com> > wrote:
>
>
> In my personal opinion, the University of Idaho appears to be taking a rational approach to this while NIC appears to be freaking out about it. Bullet proof vests? Really? Arming their security personnel? If a few retired police officers and enhanced concealed carry permit holders frighten them so much I almost hate to bring up the thought that criminals don't necessarily follow the gun laws on campuses and that there might be people with guns on campus RIGHT NOW! Let's hope that the NIC leadership doesn't read this. Tanks are expensive.
>
> Paul
>
> On 05/23/2014 04:24 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
>
> Courtesy of today's (May 23, 2014) Spokesman-Review.
>
>
>
> -----------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> After losing in Legislature, Idaho college campuses adapting policies to new gun law
>
>
> Public colleges and universities in Idaho are getting ready to comply with a new state law they strongly opposed: allowing concealed weapons to be carried on campus.
>
> The law takes effect July 1 and applies to people with an enhanced license to carry concealed weapons, along with retired law enforcement officers. College leaders universally opposed the law, but pro-gun rights lawmakers pushed it through the Legislature this year.
>
> Now college administrators and campus security departments are preparing for the new reality: guns in lecture halls, labs, offices, cafeterias ? everywhere but dormitories and entertainment venues with seating for more than 1,000, like stadiums and auditoriums.
>
> ?We intend to follow the law. Really we don?t discuss the merits of the law. That was done, the law passed. We?re talking about implementation,? said Matt Dorschel, executive director of public safety and security at the University of Idaho in Moscow.
>
> Higher education leaders are revising campus weapons policies to comply with the new law, although bans on openly carrying guns are expected to remain in effect.
>
> Some colleges also plan to beef up their security. North Idaho College in Coeur d?Alene will provide its security officers with bulletproof vests plus training related to concealed weapon laws, and it may expand its seven-person security force by one full-time and one part-time position.
>
> NIC also is mulling whether to arm its security workers for the first time, said Alex Harris, director of student development.
>
> ?I don?t know if we?ll go that direction, but it?s definitely out there and we?re considering it,? Harris said.
>
> Another option, he said, is to work with the Coeur d?Alene Police Department to station a school resource officer on campus, similar to the officers present in middle and high schools.
>
> All of these measures are unforeseen expenses at a time of budget cuts due to falling enrollment, Harris said. NIC?s enrollment this year dropped 11 percent from the previous school year ? a trend that corresponds to the improving economy.
>
> The vests will cost about $8,000, and arming and training security officers would cost $10,000 a year. The new security officers, or a school resource officer, would cost about $60,000 a year.
>
> ?The budget process this year, without this, has been difficult for the campus as a whole,? Harris said. ?It does make for some tough decisions.?
>
> The 12,000-student University of Idaho anticipates no significant changes for its security force. The Moscow Police Department can respond quickly to emergencies on campus, and a university task force implementing the new law is not likely to recommend arming campus security, Dorschel said.
>
> ?We don?t think that anything about the law would impact our need to have other armed responders on campus,? he said.
>
> NIC?s College Senate, which includes faculty, staff and students, approved new language for the school?s weapons policy last week. The president?s Cabinet is expected to take the changes to the board of trustees Wednesday, and the board will vote on the changes by the end of June.
>
> ?The policy is the easy part because basically we just have to make sure we are abiding by the new state law,? Harris said.
>
> The law allows colleges to continue to prohibit guns in dormitories and public entertainment venues with a seating capacity of at least 1,000. At NIC, that covers three buildings: the student residence hall, Christianson Gymnasium and the Schuler Performing Arts Center in Boswell Hall.
>
> It?s not clear yet if the new law also extends to college facilities off campus. For NIC, that includes its Workforce Training Center in Post Falls and satellite centers in Sandpoint, Bonners Ferry and Kellogg. NIC is awaiting a legal opinion on that.
>
> The UI task force is focused on updating the university policy on weapons, such as identifying which buildings would remain off-limits to guns, Dorschel said. That includes residence halls for about 2,000 students, Memorial Gymnasium, the Kibbie Dome and a ballroom in the student union building.
>
> The task force also is looking at whether to provide more places for licensed weapons holders to store their guns at times they cannot carry them. And the group is exploring whether employees may ask someone if they are carrying a concealed weapon.
>
> ?We will make it clear that permit holders are not required to disclose their status as a concealed carry permit holder to another employee,? Dorschel said.
>
> Both colleges will distribute answers to common questions about the new law, such as whether one should alert authorities if they see a gun.
>
> ?In general, we don?t want people to hesitate or to assume,? Harris said. ?We?re responsible for the safety of our students and our employees, and if that requires us having an uncomfortable conversation with someone who has a permit, then we?ll do it.?
>
> The responsibilities of license holders to keep their weapons concealed, and whether the law extends to off-campus activities, are other points colleges will attempt to address.
>
> ?We want to make sure we don?t ignore questions that we get from our community about how this works in practice,? Dorschel said.
>
> People have mixed feelings about guns on campus, Harris said. Some believe the law will enhance safety because those who are permitted to carry guns may be able to respond to a threat, while others worry that more armed responders will only complicate the job of police and security officers.
>
> Also, some employees have told the college they may be more inclined to request a security officer attend difficult conversations, such as terminating an employee or talking with a student who is failing a class, he said.
>
> ?I think it?s a matter of taking the temperature once this goes into effect and we start the fall semester to see what things we need to address and how,? Harris said.
>
> --------------------
>
> North Idaho College security officer Kelly Hopkins patrols NIC Beach on Wednesday. The college is equipping its security officers with bulletproof vests and is considering arming them for the first time ? unforeseen expenses during falling enrollment and budget cuts.
>
> <mime-attachment.jpg>
>
> -----------------------------------
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
>
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
>
> <http://www.moscowcares.com/> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>
>
>
> Tom Hansen
>
> Moscow, Idaho
>
>
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
>
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
>
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>
>
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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> =======================================================
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> =======================================================
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