[Vision2020] Say What?

Wed Feb 26 08:24:01 PST 2014

Tom completely miscomprehended Paul's commented (shocker!) and Paul corrected Tom's misrepresentation of him.  That's all there really was too this until now rather brief thread.

Paul's point is that the NSA is government and entity and Google and the like are not.

I myself could very be the only one on the viz who isn't overly concerned about either.  If the NSA truly doesn't have the right to root through metadata due to the 4th Amendment, then at some point there will be a Supreme Court ruling that evidence that's been collected and used in a prosecution are 'fruits of a poisonous tree'.  Google et. al. has user agreements, privacy statements, etc. to limit their liability.  If any of their activities need to be further curtailed to protect user rights, then these laws should be put in place.

So am I naive?  Probably.  I also have faith that others much smarter and more effective than me are working these issues to secure individuals' rights, privacies, and protections.

-Scott

From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; godshatter at yahoo.com; thansen at moscow.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Say What?
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 02:15:06 -0800

Scott responds:“Spot on.”You’re kidding, right?  I can almost understand Paul’s desperate naiveté, but not yours. Sure, I can accept that years ago, you believed the Hotmail (Google, Yahoo, Juno, or many others -- pick your fav) hype that they were providing “free” email service in exchange for serving you ads – that would have put you in the vast majority of people who didn’t have a clue, but surely you don’t still believe that foolishness, do you? For those who’ve not followed the privacy issues, the reality is that the real cost of free services like Paul’s beloved Google – not to mention the Yahoo he uses – is that you pay for that “free” service with your privacy, and you’re flatly sticking your head in the sand if you believe otherwise. Tom was actually the one who was “spot on,” and I know that really chaps your hide, Scott, but too bad.  Statistically, you’re probably a million times more likely to actually be negatively affected by data brokers than you are by the metadata collected by NSA (do not confuse assertion with any approval on my part of NSA’s activities).  I’ve posted before about the stupidity of being hysterical about the NSA crap while remaining stunningly mute about the bigger issue of Big Business’ (including insurance companies) historic repeated, continued, and costly invasions of our privacy that we have absolutely no protection from. And, if you’re rightly (IMHO) concerned about the metadata NSA is hovering up (which certainly isn’t something to ignore the way you & Paul have lulled yourselves into some ignorant sense of false security with respect to Big Business, including Google, that you are trying to peddle here), then you’re showing your stupidity, as well as how far behind the times you are.  It’s data aggregators & brokers like Acxiom, Experian, Datalogix, ChoicePoint and the like that you should truly fear. Just for giggles, I suggest you both spend some time exploring sites where such data is sold & bought to see what you can find about yourselves, not all of which is accurate (I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt there).  From a quick look & with very little money spent, I suspect you’d both feel as though you’d been incredibly violated.  And, no – I won’t tell you where to look.  Do the legwork yourselves to learn – really learn – about this crap. Or, have you been so paranoid about the despicable NSA abuses (IMHO) that you’ve completely missed the ball on these things which are far, far more likely to have a real, direct, and negative impact on your lives? Feel free to remain soo two decades ago. Feel free to remain part of the problem rather than part of the solution.  It’s just in France, Australia, the UK, Canada, etc. where Google has violated privacy – not here, right?  I’ve got some ocean front property just a few miles outside town for sale if you believe that crap  J  But, don’t be stupid enough to try to blame Tom for making the valid – and very obvious to some of us – point when he calls you on your bull crap.  SaundraMoscow, ID I distrust those who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires.~ Susan B. Anthony   From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Scott Dredge
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 11:49 AM
To: Paul Rumelhart; Tom Hansen
Cc: viz
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What? Spot on.Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 11:29:50 -0800
From: godshatter at yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What?
To: thansen at moscow.com
CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.comFirst, I did not claim that I am OK with Google obtaining private and personal information.  I merely made a joke.

Second, Google collects information I voluntarily give it, for the most part.  Since I run NoScript and don't enable google analytics, they have a tougher time following me around the net.  They also provide the ability to delete what data they collect if I wish to do so.

The NSA, on the other hand, did not get any of my information from me voluntarily.  They provide no means of finding out what information they have collected, or any process by which you can delete it.  Furthermore, as an agency of the government, they are only supposed to collect information from me via a warrant and only when they have probable cause to do so, Patriot Act be damned.

Paul  From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> 
Cc: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What? This comes as no surprise that the same people, here on the Viz, that strongly criticized the NSA's security measures as invasion of privacy . . . applaud a private corporation's ability to obtain private and personal informaton without consent.Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . . "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho "There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the hill." - John Lennon  
On Feb 25, 2014, at 11:05 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:"Wouldn't surprise me.  Kurzwell is a visionary and is very knowledgeable about where the AI technology is today and can extrapolate where it will be in the future.  It will be able to quickly process and comprehend decades of viz2020 archive posts." Which leads nicely into the topic of whether or not an AI Google should have rights.  I would consider having to comprehend decades of viz2020 archive posts to be a cruel and unusual punishment for a sentient machine. Paul From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
Sent: Tuesday, February 25, 2014 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Say What? With context:

Kurzweil believes that Google will soon "know the answer to your question before you have asked it. It will have read every email you've ever written, every document, every idle thought you've ever tapped into a search-engine box. It will know you better than your intimate partner does. Better, perhaps, than even yourself." 

Wouldn't surprise me.  Kurzwell is a visionary and is very knowledgeable about where the AI technology is today and can extrapolate where it will be in the future.  It will be able to quickly process and comprehend decades of viz2020 archive posts.From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 02:52:31 -0800
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Say What?"It will know you better than your intimate partner does. Better, perhaps, than even yourself."- Ray Kurzweil on the future of Google, where he serves as director of engineering.------------------------No need to be concerned.  Right, V-Peeps? As NSA woukd suggest . . . This conversation is not being recorded.  Just speak loudly, distinctly, and directly to the pencil sharpener. Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . . "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho "There's room at the top they are telling you still.But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,If you want to be like the folks on the hill." - John Lennon  
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