[Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game

Saundra Lund v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
Tue Apr 22 02:06:22 PDT 2014


Gosh, Kai -- I guess you didn't want to have a serious discussion because
you've managed to avoid the necessary clarification before any serious
discussion can take place -- if we don't understand where each is coming
from by defining the scope -- something you've studiously avoided and
decided to instead attack me -- it's pointless to engage in discussion, it
seems to me.

For the record, though, I know quite a few tea-baggers who use that term to
describe themselves.  Indeed, the last time I used "TPers" rather than
tea-baggers on V2020, I got a nice note from someone I know to be actively
involved in the movement (from the beginning, not one of Christian Right and
looney militia-types who have co-opted the movement) who found "TPer"
offensive and suggested I stick instead with "tea-baggers" because that's
how he & his cohorts refer to themselves.  But, I guess it's much easier for
you to go after a straw man rather than address the topic, right, Kai?

Now, if you self-identify with the movement and would prefer that I refer to
*you* as a TPer, I'm happy to extend to you that courtesy -- just let me
know.  Otherwise, I'm not going to defer to a Wikipedia article when I've
had someone who reads V2020  I know -- and respect -- tell me that he
prefers tea-bagger to TPer.

As for the topic at hand, I'll give you a clue:  I'm against hunger.  I'm
all for providing an adequate safety net where NO ONE needs to break the law
to feed herself or her family . . . and I don't even really care why the
person or family is hungry.  How about you -- do you care?  Like Roger
Hayes, the poachers I'm aware of didn't seem to poach out of necessity but
rather out of a screwy sense of entitlement and blatant disregard for those
pesky laws they abhor.  If you have stats to support a claim that
"necessity" poachers are the ones that are taking an incredibly heavy toll
on game in northern Idaho, I'm all ears.

Unlike you, I'll take it a step further and say I'm not limiting my "hunger
is bad" position just to the unemployed.  I know far too many working poor
who go hungry, and I think it's as big an evil for them as it is for the
unemployed.  Since in another post you mentioned delivering food to the
hungry every week in this area, I'm disappointed that you limited your moral
question to the unemployed.

However, you also wrote, " I see the face of hunger every week and I
understand why someone would poach."  Do you similarly understand why those
who are hungry resort to other illegal self-help remedies to feed
themselves?  I certainly do.  And, would you advocate the same "slack" for
them as you seem to want to see for poachers?  I certainly would.

I hope you prove me wrong, but I'll not be holding my breath waiting for you
to answer the questions I've raised in this email since you've *still* not
provided the clarification I requested in my first response to you.  But, do
everyone a favor and save your cheap shots while professing to be interested
in any discussion on a moral question.

In case you lost track, my initial requested clarifications to you were:

"Before I can participate in your interesting moral question, I need you to
clarify for me: are you asking about those "lazy" unemployed & "welfare
queens" the GOP & tea baggers are so quick to attack, cut off at the knees,
and leave hanging out to dry?

Or, are you talking about anyone who is unemployed for any reason
whatsoever, including the families with children where an adult is an
undocumented immigrant?"



-----Original Message-----
From: Kai Eiselein [mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:48 PM
To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game



Too bad we can't have discussion without bring politics and name calling
into it. It's rather pathetic, actually.

This should make it clear enough. I'm sure you are using the term
"teabagger" out of respect, right?

>From wikipedia:
The term teabagger was initially[when?] used[by whom?] to refer to Tea
Partiers after conservatives[who?] used tea bag as a verb on protest signs
and websites.[citation needed] Some members of the movement adopted the term
as a verb, and a few others referred to themselves as
"teabaggers."[212][213][214] News media and progressive commentators outside
the movement began to use the term mockingly and derisively, alluding to the
sexual connotation of the term when referring to Tea Party protesters. Most
conservatives do not use the term with its double entendre meaning; rather
it seems the political left has adopted the derogatory joke.[214][215][216]
It has been used by several media outlets to humorously refer to Tea
Party-affiliated protestors.[217] Some conservatives have advocated that the
non-vulgar meaning of the word be reclaimed.[214] Grant Barrett, co-host of
the A Way with Words radio program, has listed teabagger as a 2009 buzzword
meaning, "a derogatory name for attendees of Tea Parties, probably coined in
allusion to a sexual practice".[218]





----------------------------------------
> From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
> To: fotopro63 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On 
> Game
> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 13:25:48 -0700
>
> What name-calling? I hardly consider it "name-calling" on my part to 
> simply repeat the words of the GOP & tea-baggers. Funny you take 
> exception at that but not at what they do to the poor.
>
> And, what's the matter -- don't care to answer the question? Why? Is 
> there some hypocrisy involved on your part or what?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kai Eiselein [mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:13 PM
> To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On 
> Game
>
> Can't leave politics out of anything, Saundra? Not even a moral question?
>
> I have to give you points for coming out swinging with the name 
> calling though. That burning hatred IS impressive.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
>> To: fotopro63 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On 
>> Game
>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 11:25:02 -0700
>>
>> Before I can participate in your interesting moral question, I need 
>> you to clarify for me: are you asking about those "lazy" unemployed & 
>> "welfare queens" the GOP & tea baggers are so quick to attack, cut 
>> off at the knees, and leave hanging out to dry?
>>
>> Or, are you talking about anyone who is unemployed for any reason 
>> whatsoever, including the families with children where an adult is an 
>> undocumented immigrant?
>>
>> Looking forward to your clarification!
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Kai Eiselein [mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 8:33 AM
>> To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com
>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On 
>> Game
>>
>> This also brings up an interesting moral question.
>>
>> Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family poaches 
>> a deer or an elk for food, should that person be treated the same as 
>> a trophy or money poacher who only takes the rack, hide or parts that 
>> have
> cash value?
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>>> From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
>>> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 02:23:12 -0700
>>> Subject: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game
>>>
>>> If anyone can post the LMT article referenced, I'm sure I'm not the 
>>> only one who would appreciate it. It seems to me our tax dollars 
>>> would be far, far better spent hunting down these damn poachers than 
>>> caving to the paranoia of the mentally unhinged "big bad wolf" crowd.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://boisestatepublicradio.org/post/north-idaho-poachers-taking-he
>>> a
>>> v
>>> y-toll
>>> -game
>>>
>>> North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game
>>>
>>> State wildlife officials in northern Idaho say poachers are killing 
>>> far more game animals than wolves.
>>>
>>> Officials tell the Lewiston Tribune that last year in northern Idaho 
>>> they confirmed poaching of 30 elk, four moose, 13 mule deer and 57 
>>> whitetail deer.
>>>
>>> Officials say a realistic detection rate is 5 percent, meaning 
>>> poachers are likely killing about 600 elk, 80 moose, 260 mule deer 
>>> and
>> 1,000 whitetail.
>>>
>>> Idaho Fish and Game District Conservation Officer Barry Cummings 
>>> says many people don't report wildlife crimes because they don't 
>>> consider it a crime against them.
>>>
>>> The fine in Idaho for illegally killing an elk is $750, while the 
>>> fine for illegally killing a moose is $10,000.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =======================================================
>>> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
>>> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>>> http://www.fsr.net
>>> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>>> =======================================================
>>
>>
>
>
 		 	   		  





More information about the Vision2020 mailing list