[Vision2020] Poachers
Saundra Lund
v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
Sat Apr 19 13:31:22 PDT 2014
Then you should know, Kai, that your suggestion of cutting slack to poachers
who are receiving unemployment and/or food stamps excludes the most needy
amongst us.
-----Original Message-----
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
On Behalf Of Kai Eiselein
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:09 PM
To: rhayes at frontier.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Poachers
I travel all over north central Idaho, including Elk City, Riggins,
Potlatch, Weippe and Stites distributing food to those in need.
I see the face of hunger every week and I understand why someone would
poach.
________________________________
> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 11:58:43 -0700
> From: rhayes at frontier.com
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] Poachers
>
> I have been around in the woods and back country long enough to know
> why and who shoots at anything moving on four legs. And it usually
> isn't about putting food on the table.
> From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 11:26 AM
> Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 94, Issue 82
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game (Tom Hansen)
> 2. Re: North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game (Saundra
> Lund)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:54:00 -0700
> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com<mailto:thansen at moscow.com>>
> To: Kai Eiselein <fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>>
> Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>"
> <vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
> Game
> Message-ID:
> <8498DFE5-7909-4D49-9FD8-481324B516B4 at moscow.com<mailto:8498DFE5-7909-
> 4D49-9FD8-481324B516B4 at moscow.com>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> And if the U.S. Congress terminates a person's food stamps and refuses
> to extend their unemployment?
>
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.moscowcares.com/
>
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
>
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, If you want to be
> like the folks on the hill."
>
> - John Lennon
>
>
> > On Apr 19, 2014, at 10:43 AM, Kai Eiselein
> <fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > If someone is getting unemployment and/or food stamps, I'd say
> > that's
> a pretty good indication of necessity and would pretty easy to verify.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> >> From: thansen at moscow.com<mailto:thansen at moscow.com>
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:01:50 -0700
> >> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com<mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>
> >> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
> >> Game
> >>
> >> Then . . .
> >>
> >> What about the indigent person who poaches elk/deer for the cash
> >> value of the racks . . . using the "revenue" to purchase food?
> >>
> >> And, if the law is modified such that indigant people can't even be
> >> charged with the crime of poaching, what is to stop the more
> >> financially-secure poacher from copping the "I am indigent and only
> >> sell the elk/deer racks to put food on my family's dinner table" plea?
> >>
> >> If the financial stability of the perp is the determing factor in
> >> whether or not the above cop-out plea may be applied, at what
> >> amount of financial worth is the line drawn?
> >>
> >> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> >>
> >> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> >> http://www.moscowcares.com/<http://www.moscowcares.com/>
> >>
> >> Tom Hansen
> >> Moscow, Idaho
> >>
> >> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> >> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, If you want to
> >> be like the folks on the hill."
> >>
> >> - John Lennon
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 19, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Sunil
> >>
> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com<mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com><mailt
> o:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com<mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Kai,
> >>
> >> I say 'yes,' the person feeding his family should be treated
> >> differently, and it should start with the law itself. It should
> >> provide for different treatments, or perhaps create a necessity
> >> exception that would excuse the first person in your example. Since
> >> judges will vary widely on the punishment end, to argue mercy
> >> should be provided there is to live in Dreamland.
> >>
> >> Juries generally don't assess punishments, except for the death
> >> penalty. Their verdicts may create sentencing ranges, depending on
> >> the charges, or they can acquit.
> >>
> >> Tom says, 'Where the "trophy poacher" may be sentenced to some jail
> >> time and a heavy fine, the indigent person may be sentenced to a
> >> short term of probation.'
> >>
> >> I think the positions are more likely to be reversed in the real world.
> >>
> >> Sunil
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From:
> thansen at moscow.com<mailto:thansen at moscow.com><mailto:thansen at moscow.co
> m<mailto:thansen at moscow.com>>
> >> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 09:19:49 -0700
> >> To:
> fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com><mailto:fotopro63 at h
> otmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>>
> >> CC:
> vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com><mailto:vision2020@
> moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
> >> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
> >> Game
> >>
> >> Kai Eiselein suggests:
> >>
> >> "Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family
> >> poaches a deer or an elk for food, should that person be treated
> >> the same as a trophy or money poacher who only takes the rack, hide
> >> or parts that have cash value?"
> >>
> >> As much as I hate to say this, Mr. Eiselein . . .
> >>
> >> Yes. A law is only as strong as the people who enforce it.
> >>
> >> In both cases, "trophy poachers" (who take the elk/deer racks for
> >> their cash value) and indigent people (who are striving to put food
> >> on the dinner table), are guilty of the crime of poaching.
> >>
> >> The individual reason for poaching may be presented during the
> >> judicial process. At which time the judge or jury may impose
> >> punishment commensurate with the motivation behind committing the
> >> crime. In military courts-martial, that portion of the judicial
> >> pricess is referred to as "presentation of matters in extenuation and
mitigation".
> >> Where the "trophy poacher" may be sentenced to some jail time and
> >> a heavy fine, the indigent person may be sentenced to a short term
> >> of probation.
> >>
> >> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> >>
> >> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> >> http://www.moscowcares.com/<http://www.moscowcares.com/>
> >>
> >> Tom Hansen
> >> Moscow, Idaho
> >>
> >> "There's room at the top they are telling you still.
> >> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, If you want to
> >> be like the folks on the hill."
> >>
> >> - John Lennon
> >>
> >>
> >> On Apr 19, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Kai Eiselein
> >>
> <fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com><mailto:fotopro63@
> hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>>>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family
> >> poaches a deer or an elk for food, should that person be treated
> >> the same as a trophy or money poacher who only takes the rack, hide
> >> or parts that have cash value?
> >>
> >> ======================================================= List
> >> services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> >> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net/mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<mailto:Vision2020@mosc
> ow.com>
> >> =======================================================
> >> =======================================================
> >> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> >> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> >> http://www.fsr.net/
> >> mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> >> =======================================================
> >>
> >> ======================================================= List
> >> services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> >> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net/mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<mailto:Vision2020@mosc
> ow.com>
> >> =======================================================
> >
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 11:25:02 -0700
> From: "Saundra Lund"
> <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm<mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>>
> To: "'Kai Eiselein'"
> <fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>>,
> <vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
> Game
> Message-ID: <00ed01cf5bfc$ae996b50$0bcc41f0$@ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Before I can participate in your interesting moral question, I need
> you to clarify for me: are you asking about those "lazy" unemployed &
> "welfare queens" the GOP & tea baggers are so quick to attack, cut off
> at the knees, and leave hanging out to dry?
>
> Or, are you talking about anyone who is unemployed for any reason
> whatsoever, including the families with children where an adult is an
> undocumented immigrant?
>
> Looking forward to your clarification!
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kai Eiselein
> [mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>]
> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 8:33 AM
> To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> Subject: RE: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
> Game
>
> This also brings up an interesting moral question.
>
> Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family poaches
> a deer or an elk for food, should that person be treated the same as a
> trophy or money poacher who only takes the rack, hide or parts that have
cash value?
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------
> > From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm<mailto:v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
> > To: vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 02:23:12 -0700
> > Subject: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game
> >
> > If anyone can post the LMT article referenced, I'm sure I'm not the
> > only one who would appreciate it. It seems to me our tax dollars
> > would be far, far better spent hunting down these damn poachers than
> > caving to the paranoia of the mentally unhinged "big bad wolf" crowd.
> >
> >
> > http://boisestatepublicradio.org/post/north-idaho-poachers-taking-he
> > av
> > y-toll
> > -game
> >
> > North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game
> >
> > State wildlife officials in northern Idaho say poachers are killing
> > far more game animals than wolves.
> >
> > Officials tell the Lewiston Tribune that last year in northern Idaho
> > they confirmed poaching of 30 elk, four moose, 13 mule deer and 57
> > whitetail deer.
> >
> > Officials say a realistic detection rate is 5 percent, meaning
> > poachers are likely killing about 600 elk, 80 moose, 260 mule deer
> > and
> 1,000 whitetail.
> >
> > Idaho Fish and Game District Conservation Officer Barry Cummings
> > says many people don't report wildlife crimes because they don't
> > consider it a crime against them.
> >
> > The fine in Idaho for illegally killing an elk is $750, while the
> > fine for illegally killing a moose is $10,000.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > =======================================================
> > List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
> > communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> > http://www.fsr.net/
> > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com>
> > =======================================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 94, Issue 82
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