[Vision2020] Poachers

Sat Apr 19 11:58:43 PDT 2014

I have been around in the woods and back country long enough to know why and who shoots at anything moving on four legs. And it usually isn't about putting food on the table. 

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To: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 11:26 AM
Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 94, Issue 82

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game (Tom Hansen)
   2. Re: North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game (Saundra Lund)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:54:00 -0700
From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
To: Kai Eiselein <fotopro63 at hotmail.com>
Cc: "vision2020 at moscow.com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
    Game
Message-ID: <8498DFE5-7909-4D49-9FD8-481324B516B4 at moscow.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

And if the U.S. Congress terminates a person's food stamps and refuses to extend their unemployment?

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
http://www.moscowcares.com/

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still.
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

> On Apr 19, 2014, at 10:43 AM, Kai Eiselein <fotopro63 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> If someone is getting unemployment and/or food stamps, I'd say that's a pretty good indication of necessity and would pretty easy to verify.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ________________________________
>> From: thansen at moscow.com 
>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 10:01:50 -0700 
>> To: sunilramalingam at hotmail.com 
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com 
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game 
>> 
>> Then . . . 
>> 
>> What about the indigent person who poaches elk/deer for the cash value  
>> of the racks . . . using the "revenue" to purchase food? 
>> 
>> And, if the law is modified such that indigant people can't even be  
>> charged with the crime of poaching, what is to stop the more  
>> financially-secure poacher from copping the "I am indigent and only  
>> sell the elk/deer racks to put food on my family's dinner table" plea? 
>> 
>> If the financial stability of the perp is the determing factor in  
>> whether or not the above cop-out plea may be applied, at what amount of  
>> financial worth is the line drawn? 
>> 
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . . 
>> 
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on) 
>> http://www.moscowcares.com/<http://www.moscowcares.com/> 
>> 
>> Tom Hansen 
>> Moscow, Idaho 
>> 
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still. 
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, 
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill." 
>> 
>> - John Lennon 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 19, 2014, at 9:40 AM, Sunil  
>> <sunilramalingam at hotmail.com<mailto:sunilramalingam at hotmail.com>>  
>> wrote: 
>> 
>> Kai, 
>> 
>> I say 'yes,' the person feeding his family should be treated  
>> differently, and it should start with the law itself. It should provide  
>> for different treatments, or perhaps create a necessity exception that  
>> would excuse the first person in your example. Since judges will vary  
>> widely on the punishment end, to argue mercy should be provided there  
>> is to live in Dreamland. 
>> 
>> Juries generally don't assess punishments, except for the death  
>> penalty. Their verdicts may create sentencing ranges, depending on the  
>> charges, or they can acquit. 
>> 
>> Tom says, 'Where the "trophy poacher" may be sentenced to some jail  
>> time and a heavy fine, the indigent person may be sentenced to a short  
>> term of probation.' 
>> 
>> I think the positions are more likely to be reversed in the real world. 
>> 
>> Sunil 
>> 
>> ________________________________ 
>> From: thansen at moscow.com<mailto:thansen at moscow.com> 
>> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 09:19:49 -0700 
>> To: fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com> 
>> CC: vision2020 at moscow.com<mailto:vision2020 at moscow.com> 
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game 
>> 
>> Kai Eiselein suggests: 
>> 
>> "Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family poaches  
>> a deer or an elk for food, should that person be treated the same as a  
>> trophy or money poacher who only takes the rack, hide or parts that  
>> have cash value?" 
>> 
>> As much as I hate to say this, Mr. Eiselein . . . 
>> 
>> Yes.  A law is only as strong as the people who enforce it. 
>> 
>> In both cases, "trophy poachers" (who take the elk/deer racks for their  
>> cash value) and indigent people (who are striving to put food on the  
>> dinner table), are guilty of the crime of poaching. 
>> 
>> The individual reason for poaching may be presented during the judicial  
>> process.  At which time the judge or jury may impose punishment  
>> commensurate with the motivation behind committing the crime.  In  
>> military courts-martial, that portion of the judicial pricess is  
>> referred to as "presentation of matters in extenuation and mitigation".  
>>  Where the "trophy poacher" may be sentenced to some jail time and a  
>> heavy fine, the indigent person may be sentenced to a short term of  
>> probation. 
>> 
>> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . . 
>> 
>> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on) 
>> http://www.moscowcares.com/<http://www.moscowcares.com/> 
>> 
>> Tom Hansen 
>> Moscow, Idaho 
>> 
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still. 
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill, 
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill." 
>> 
>> - John Lennon 
>> 
>> 
>> On Apr 19, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Kai Eiselein  
>> <fotopro63 at hotmail.com<mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com>> wrote: 
>> 
>> Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family poaches a  
>> deer or an elk for food, should that person be treated the same as a  
>> trophy or money poacher who only takes the rack, hide or parts that  
>> have cash value? 
>> 
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 11:25:02 -0700
From: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
To: "'Kai Eiselein'" <fotopro63 at hotmail.com>, <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On
    Game
Message-ID: <00ed01cf5bfc$ae996b50$0bcc41f0$@ssl1.fastmail.fm>
Content-Type: text/plain;    charset="us-ascii"

Before I can participate in your interesting moral question, I need you to
clarify for me:  are you asking about those "lazy" unemployed & "welfare
queens" the GOP & tea baggers are so quick to attack, cut off at the knees,
and leave hanging out to dry?

Or, are you talking about anyone who is unemployed for any reason
whatsoever, including the families with children where an adult is an
undocumented immigrant?

Looking forward to your clarification!

-----Original Message-----
From: Kai Eiselein [mailto:fotopro63 at hotmail.com] 
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 8:33 AM
To: Saundra Lund; vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: RE: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game

This also brings up an interesting moral question.

Let's say a person is unemployed and needs to feed his/family poaches a deer
or an elk for food, should that person be treated the same as a trophy or
money poacher who only takes the rack, hide or parts that have cash value?

----------------------------------------
> From: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2014 02:23:12 -0700
> Subject: [Vision2020] North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game
>
> If anyone can post the LMT article referenced, I'm sure I'm not the 
> only one who would appreciate it. It seems to me our tax dollars would 
> be far, far better spent hunting down these damn poachers than caving 
> to the paranoia of the mentally unhinged "big bad wolf" crowd.
>
>
> http://boisestatepublicradio.org/post/north-idaho-poachers-taking-heav
> y-toll
> -game
>
> North Idaho Poachers Taking Heavy Toll On Game
>
> State wildlife officials in northern Idaho say poachers are killing 
> far more game animals than wolves.
>
> Officials tell the Lewiston Tribune that last year in northern Idaho 
> they confirmed poaching of 30 elk, four moose, 13 mule deer and 57 
> whitetail deer.
>
> Officials say a realistic detection rate is 5 percent, meaning 
> poachers are likely killing about 600 elk, 80 moose, 260 mule deer and
1,000 whitetail.
>
> Idaho Fish and Game District Conservation Officer Barry Cummings says 
> many people don't report wildlife crimes because they don't consider 
> it a crime against them.
>
> The fine in Idaho for illegally killing an elk is $750, while the fine 
> for illegally killing a moose is $10,000.
>
>
>
>
>
> =======================================================
> List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the 
> communities of the Palouse since 1994.
> http://www.fsr.net/
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