[Vision2020] respect this forum
Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com
Mon Sep 9 10:09:08 PDT 2013
I agree, Sue. I think when anyone is attacked personally everyone feels like they could also be attacked if they speak their opinions and ideas on the forum. So many will not join the forum. This prevents ideas and opinions from being interjected into the forum that could be productive and helpful to the community or individuals that may have benefited from that interaction on V2020.
If someone feels a need to attack something, attack the flaws in ideas, not the person with what they think is a flawed idea or flawed belief. Even Albert Einstein had errors in this theories at some point, so none of us are impervious to flaws and imperfections in our knowledge and thinking. People need the interactions about their ideas and beliefs without the insecurities that their personal imperfections will be exposed and attacked in public for doing so.
Donovan J. Arnold
________________________________
From: Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com>
To: Ted Moffett <starbliss at gmail.com>; rhayes at frontier.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Sunday, September 8, 2013 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] respect this forum
Yes, I agree. I’m trying valiantly not to post snide or sarcastic
remarks that are “gotchas,” even though I sort of enjoyed doing it in the past,
particularly if I thought of a really good one. One reason: at my age I
need all the friends I can get, and pissing folks off probably works against
that goal.
Sueh
From: Ted Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 3:58 PM
To: rhayes at frontier.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] respect this forum
In about a decade of following Vision2020, I have read numerous requests
for more civility on this list. While in some respects I agree with these
requests, they have never changed the frequency of personal insults. Some
have even argued that the mud slinging actually increases list participation, or
list readership, and that the list would be more boring, with fewer readers, if
everyone was a perfect angel.
Don Henley's (one of the main musicians behind the Eagles) solo career song
"Dirty Laundry" expresses it... "Dirty laundry" in media sells! "We all
know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46bBWBG9r2o
Lyrics to the song below:
I make my living off the Evening News
Just give me something-something
I can use
People love it when you lose,
They love dirty laundry
Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here
I just have to
look good, I don't have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us
dirty laundry
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when
they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick
'em all around
We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
Comes on
at five
She can tell you 'bout the plane crash with a gleam
In her eye
It's interesting when people die-
Give us dirty laundry
Can we
film the operation?
Is the head dead yet?
You know, the boys in the
newsroom got a
Running bet
Get the widow on the set!
We need dirty
laundry
You don't really need to find out what's going on
You don't
really want to know just how far it's gone
Just leave well enough alone
Eat your dirty laundry
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when
they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em
when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're stiff
Kick 'em all around
Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybody's pie
We love to cut you
down to size
We love dirty laundry
We can do "The Innuendo"
We
can dance and sing
When it's said and done we haven't told you a thing
We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry!
---------------------------------------
Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:06 AM, rhayes at frontier.com <rhayes at frontier.com> wrote:
>Hello,
>Please refrain from personal banter on this forum. The personal attacks do nothing but devalue both the arguments and opinions posted, but also the people posting the blather.
>While I know that V2020 is a free-for-all no moderation community forum, let's show some respect to the majority who use this service to become better informed citizens of the region.
>I suggest that if someone throws a "bomb," do not respond. If you have a legitimate opinion, state that opinion and leave the personal attack out of it.
>On an entirely different subject, I know that farmers don't like rain right now, but it certainly is a blessing for those with gardens and lawns.
>
>From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>To: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 2:53 PM
>Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
>
>
>Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
> vision2020 at moscow.com
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via
the World Wide Web, visit
> http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
>or,
via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> vision2020-request at moscow.com
>
>You can reach the
person managing the list at
> vision2020-owner at moscow.com
>
>When replying, please
edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of
Vision2020 digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: And yet
no apology . . . (Scott Dredge)
> 2. This won't surprise any of us -
(Rosemary
Huskey)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message:
1
>Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 14:59:12 -0600
>From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
>To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
>Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And
yet no apology . . .
>Message-ID: <BLU175-W18D7F58A356E0C0D19CFCBE4370 at phx.gbl>
>Content-Type:
text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
>For emails intended to be 'offlist',
please remember to remove the viz alias from the cc: list. As Saundra
wrote recently to another member who was posting dirty language: 'Have some
respect. We have young people who read Vision 2020, and they do not need
to be subjected to your foul explosions. I don?t need to be subjected to
your foul explosions . . . no one does.'
>
>It's best to keep displays of
'lack of mature responsibility' private. And if we have young people who
read Vision 2020 as well as other people who are decent, moral, and
upstanding, it would be best to ix-nay any references to ircle-say erks-jay as
well as similar post from you regarding ubber-ray olls-day and so
forth.
>
>From: thansen at moscow.com
>Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:01:16
-0700
>To: bear at moscow.com
>CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And yet
no apology . . .
>
>I have more important things on my mind and on my
to-do list for the next several months, Mr. Price, than to play
I'm-rubber-you're-glue with some poorly equipped third grader here on the Viz
ad nauseum. So tell ya what . .
>Here is a message you can share with
your buddies at your next circle jerk and/or at the sandbox during your next
show-and-tell . . .
>You win!
>
>
>On Aug 31, 2013, at 6:40 AM,
Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>STRONGLY advise you to
wish in one hand, and............................ well, you know the
rest.
>
>With all the due respect you
deserve,
>
>Wayne
>
>
>
>
>On Aug 31, 2013, at 3:22 AM, Tom
Hansen wrote:Although I have recently been scolded for what has been
interpreted and perceived to be a lack of maturity on my part, I stepped
forward and apologized, both publicly and privately, to those affected.
After all, to do less would (and should) be considered a lack of mature
responsibility.
>Subsequently, my feet have been put to the proverbial fire
here on the Viz by certain members who place themselves on the moral
highground.
>Yet, as reflected in the public exchange below, I have been
referred to as "racist" by Wayne Price, based on nothing more than his
wrongful characterization of an article I posted.
>No apology from Mr.
Price. No retraction.
>Accountability and mature responsibility
are fates all of us must bear, not just those to whom some of us hold a degree
of animosity.
>As such, Mr. Price should account for his insulting
comment. Yet, given the character of those who placed themseves on the
previously mentioned moral highground, none is expected.
>Seeya 'round town,
Moscow, because . . .
>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your
pants on)http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
>"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you
must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the
hill."
>- John Lennon
>
>
>On Aug 28, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Tom Hansen
<thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>No, Mr. Price.
>That is not racist. The humor was aimed directly at former Army
Major Nidal Hasan, the killer of 13 American soldiers and one unborn child at
Fort Hood, Texas, who was sentenced to death a mere few hours ago.
>Howver,
you are entitled to your opinion, as shallow as it is.
>Seeya 'round town,
Moscow, because . . .
>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your
pants on)http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
>"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you
must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the
hill."
>- John Lennon
>
>
>On Aug 28, 2013, at 1:50 PM, Wayne Price
<bear at moscow.com> wrote:
>
>And that's not racist?
>Tom, there are only two things wrong
with you - your face!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Aug 28, 2013,
at 1:41 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:Courtesy of the Duffel Blog at:
>http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/08/nidal-hasan-granted-terminal-leave/-------------------------------------Nidal Hasan Granted Terminal Leave<AP_nidal_hasan_jef_130806_16x9_992.jpg>FORT HOOD, TX ? A military jury has granted Army Maj. Nidal Hasan terminal leave today, sparking consternation throughout the military.The decision fanned flames sparked by recent revelations that he was continuing to receive full pay and benefits while on trial for an act of workplace violence that left 13 dead and wounded more than 30 others. Witnesses reported that Hasan shouted ?Allahu Akbar? ? Arabic for ?I am dissatisfied with my working conditions? ? during the attack.By granting him terminal leave, the Army will transfer him from active duty to the ?involuntary reserve, dead? list. He will be required to undergo a final physical, including a single vaccination through an IV.His pay and benefits, including respiration and cardiac function, will be stopped.At
press time, many observers were !
>upset that he had not received
a harsher sentence.
>-------------------------------------
>
>Seeya
'round town, Moscow, because . . .
>"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can
have with your pants on)http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
>"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you
must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the
hill."
>- John Lennon
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Message:
2
>Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 14:52:07 -0700
>From: "Rosemary Huskey" <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>
>To: "'Moscow Vision 2020'"
<vision2020 at moscow.com>
>Subject: [Vision2020] This
won't surprise any of us -
>Message-ID:
<00d801cea75d$84dbd680$8e938380$@com>
>Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>A Plutocracy Ruled by Self-Centered
Jerks?
>
>
>August 27, 2013
>
>by Joshua Holland <http://billmoyers.com/author/hollandj/>
>
>
><http://cdn.billmoyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/AP100715021885_size.jp
>g>
Hassan Nemazee, the wealthy Manhattan investment banker, steps over
a
>security chain as he leaves federal court in Manhattan after being
sentenced
>to 12 years in prison for bank fraud. (AP Photo/Larry
Neumeister)
>
>Hassan Nemazee, the wealthy Manhattan investment banker,
steps over a
>security chain as he leaves federal court in Manhattan after
being sentenced
>to 12 years in prison for bank fraud. (AP Photo/Larry
Neumeister)
>
>Two studies released last week confirmed what most of us
already knew: the
>ultra-wealthy tend to be narcissistic and have a greater
sense of
>entitlement than the rest of us, and Congress only pays attention
to their
>interests. Both studies are consistent with earlier
research.
>
>In the first study
><http://psp.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/08/19/0146167213501699.full#aff-1
>>
, published in the current Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin,
>Paul
Piff of UC Berkeley conducted five experiments which demonstrated
that
>"higher social class is associated with increased entitlement
and
>narcissism." Given the opportunity, Piff also found that they were
more
>likely to check themselves out in a mirror than were those of lesser
means.
>
>Piff looked at how participants scored on a standard scale of
"psychological
>entitlement," and found that those of a high social class -
based on income
>levels, education and occupational prestige - were more
likely to say "I
>honestly feel I'm just more deserving than others," while
people further
>down the social ladder were likelier to respond, "I do not
necessarily
>deserve special treatment."
>
>In an earlier
study
><http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/02/21/1118373109.full.pdf+html> ,
>published last year in the Proceedings of the National Academy of
Sciences,
>Piff and four researchers from the University of Toronto
conducted a series
>of experiments which found that "upper-class individuals
behave more
>unethically than lower-class individuals." This included being
more likely
>to "display unethical decision-making," steal, lie during a
negotiation and
>cheat in order to win a contest.
>
>In one telling
experiment, the researchers observed a busy intersection, and
>found that
drivers of luxury cars were more likely to cut off other drivers
>and less
likely to stop for pedestrians crossing the street than those
>behind the
wheels of more modest vehicles. "In our crosswalk study, none of
>the
cars in the beater-car category drove through the crosswalk," Piff told
>The
New York Times
><http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/the-rich-drive-differently-a-stu
>dy-suggests/?_r=0>
. "But you see this huge boost in a driver's likelihood
>to commit
infractions in more expensive cars." He added: "BMW drivers are
>the
worst."
>
>Summing up previous research on the topic, Piff notes that
upper-class
>individuals also "showed reduced sensitivity to others'
suffering" as
>compared with working- and middle-class
people.
>
>Lower-class individuals are more likely to spend time taking
care of others,
>and they are more embedded in social networks that depend
on mutual aid. By
>contrast, upper-class individuals prioritize independence
from others: They
>are less motivated than lower-class individuals to build
social
>relationships and instead seek to differentiate themselves from
others.
>
>These findings may appear to represent a bit of psychological
trivia, but a
>study
><http://prq.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/10/04/1065912912459567.abstract?p
>apetoc>
to be published in Political Science Quarterly by Thomas Hayes, a
>scholar
at Trinity University, finds that U.S. senators respond almost
>exclusively
to the interests of their wealthiest constituents - those more
>likely to be
unethical and less sensitive to the suffering of others,
>according to
Piff.
>
>Hayes took data from the Annenberg Election Survey - a massive
database of
>public opinion representing the views of 90,000 voters - and
compared them
>with their senators' voting records from 2001 through 2010.
From 2007
>through 2010, U.S. senators were somewhat responsive to the
interests of the
>middle class, but hadn't been for the first 6 years Hayes
studied. The views
>of the poor didn't factor into legislators' voting
tendencies at all.
>
>As Eric Dolan noted for
><http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/19/oligarchic-tendencies-study-finds-onl
>y-the-wealthy-get-represented-in-the-senate/>
The Raw Story, "The neglect of
>lower income groups was a bipartisan affair.
Democrats were not any more
>responsive to the poor than Republicans." Hayes
wrote that his analysis
>"suggests oligarchic tendencies in the American
system, a finding echoed in
>other research."
>
>Hayes' study is
consistent with earlier research, including Princeton
>University scholar
Larry Bartels' 2005 study
><http://www.princeton.edu/~bartels/economic.pdf> of "Economic Inequality
>and Political Representation."
>
>There are a few
of ways of looking at these findings. They could be the
>result of genuinely
held ideological beliefs which happen to justify
>inequality and
privilege.
>
>According to OpenSecrets <http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/averages.php> ,
>the
average net worth of senators in 2011 was $11.9 million, so it could be
>a
matter of legislators advancing their own interests and those of the
>people
with whom they socialize and associate.
>
>But MIT economist Daron
Acemoglu, who co-authored
><http://www.amazon.com/Why-Nations-Fail-Prosperity-ebook/dp/B0058Z4NR8> Why
>Nations Fail with Harvard's James Robinson, says that this kind of
political
>inequality is a product of widening economic disparities. "It's a
general
>pattern throughout history," he told Think Progress
><http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/03/23/451166/acemoglu-income-inequali
>ty-political-powe/>
. "When economic inequality increases, the people who
>have become
economically more powerful will often attempt to use that power
>in order to
gain even more political power. And once they are able to
>monopolize
political power, they will start using that for changing the
>rules in their
favor. And that sort of political inequality is the real
>danger that's
facing the United States."
>
>
>
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