[Vision2020] respect this forum
deb
debismith at moscow.com
Mon Sep 9 18:51:01 PDT 2013
I try to be "good" but once in a while some idjit posts something I can't resist.....I'm a sucker for openings for a nasty "come-back" even though I know it just promotes flame wars....of course, if I were in real-time and face-to-face, I'd have no idea what to say; I'd just be gob-smacked and stand there with a goofy grin, wishing I could be elsewhere..... (UnIess I have had two glasses of wine, then all bets are off. Fair warning: In Vito Veritas).
My friends say I'm straight-forward and honest, though very cynical. I have a hunch that means "lacking tact and consideration for others, with a serious bent towards disbelieving everything".
But I do value the V. No mater what is posted, it all is interesting and has a piece of the puzzle that is Moscow--------------
Debi R-S
----- Original Message -----
From: Sue Hovey
To: Ted Moffett ; rhayes at frontier.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2013 4:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] respect this forum
Yes, I agree. I’m trying valiantly not to post snide or sarcastic remarks that are “gotchas,” even though I sort of enjoyed doing it in the past, particularly if I thought of a really good one. One reason: at my age I need all the friends I can get, and pissing folks off probably works against that goal.
Sueh
From: Ted Moffett
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 3:58 PM
To: rhayes at frontier.com
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] respect this forum
In about a decade of following Vision2020, I have read numerous requests for more civility on this list. While in some respects I agree with these requests, they have never changed the frequency of personal insults. Some have even argued that the mud slinging actually increases list participation, or list readership, and that the list would be more boring, with fewer readers, if everyone was a perfect angel.
Don Henley's (one of the main musicians behind the Eagles) solo career song "Dirty Laundry" expresses it... "Dirty laundry" in media sells! "We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46bBWBG9r2o
Lyrics to the song below:
I make my living off the Evening News
Just give me something-something I can use
People love it when you lose,
They love dirty laundry
Well, I coulda been an actor, but I wound up here
I just have to look good, I don't have to be clear
Come and whisper in my ear
Give us dirty laundry
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em all around
We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
Comes on at five
She can tell you 'bout the plane crash with a gleam
In her eye
It's interesting when people die-
Give us dirty laundry
Can we film the operation?
Is the head dead yet?
You know, the boys in the newsroom got a
Running bet
Get the widow on the set!
We need dirty laundry
You don't really need to find out what's going on
You don't really want to know just how far it's gone
Just leave well enough alone
Eat your dirty laundry
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're up
Kick 'em when they're down
Kick 'em when they're stiff
Kick 'em all around
Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybody's pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry
We can do "The Innuendo"
We can dance and sing
When it's said and done we haven't told you a thing
We all know that Crap is King
Give us dirty laundry!
---------------------------------------
Vision2020 Post: Ted Moffett
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 11:06 AM, rhayes at frontier.com <rhayes at frontier.com> wrote:
Hello,
Please refrain from personal banter on this forum. The personal attacks do nothing but devalue both the arguments and opinions posted, but also the people posting the blather.
While I know that V2020 is a free-for-all no moderation community forum, let's show some respect to the majority who use this service to become better informed citizens of the region.
I suggest that if someone throws a "bomb," do not respond. If you have a legitimate opinion, state that opinion and leave the personal attack out of it.
On an entirely different subject, I know that farmers don't like rain right now, but it certainly is a blessing for those with gardens and lawns.
From: "vision2020-request at moscow.com" <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Sent: Sunday, September 1, 2013 2:53 PM
Subject: Vision2020 Digest, Vol 87, Issue 4
Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: And yet no apology . . . (Scott Dredge)
2. This won't surprise any of us - (Rosemary Huskey)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 14:59:12 -0600
From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
To: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com>
Cc: viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And yet no apology . . .
Message-ID: <BLU175-W18D7F58A356E0C0D19CFCBE4370 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
For emails intended to be 'offlist', please remember to remove the viz alias from the cc: list. As Saundra wrote recently to another member who was posting dirty language: 'Have some respect. We have young people who read Vision 2020, and they do not need to be subjected to your foul explosions. I don?t need to be subjected to your foul explosions . . . no one does.'
It's best to keep displays of 'lack of mature responsibility' private. And if we have young people who read Vision 2020 as well as other people who are decent, moral, and upstanding, it would be best to ix-nay any references to ircle-say erks-jay as well as similar post from you regarding ubber-ray olls-day and so forth.
From: thansen at moscow.com
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 2013 09:01:16 -0700
To: bear at moscow.com
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] And yet no apology . . .
I have more important things on my mind and on my to-do list for the next several months, Mr. Price, than to play I'm-rubber-you're-glue with some poorly equipped third grader here on the Viz ad nauseum. So tell ya what . .
Here is a message you can share with your buddies at your next circle jerk and/or at the sandbox during your next show-and-tell . . .
You win!
On Aug 31, 2013, at 6:40 AM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
STRONGLY advise you to wish in one hand, and............................ well, you know the rest.
With all the due respect you deserve,
Wayne
On Aug 31, 2013, at 3:22 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:Although I have recently been scolded for what has been interpreted and perceived to be a lack of maturity on my part, I stepped forward and apologized, both publicly and privately, to those affected. After all, to do less would (and should) be considered a lack of mature responsibility.
Subsequently, my feet have been put to the proverbial fire here on the Viz by certain members who place themselves on the moral highground.
Yet, as reflected in the public exchange below, I have been referred to as "racist" by Wayne Price, based on nothing more than his wrongful characterization of an article I posted.
No apology from Mr. Price. No retraction.
Accountability and mature responsibility are fates all of us must bear, not just those to whom some of us hold a degree of animosity.
As such, Mr. Price should account for his insulting comment. Yet, given the character of those who placed themseves on the previously mentioned moral highground, none is expected.
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
On Aug 28, 2013, at 2:04 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:
No, Mr. Price.
That is not racist. The humor was aimed directly at former Army Major Nidal Hasan, the killer of 13 American soldiers and one unborn child at Fort Hood, Texas, who was sentenced to death a mere few hours ago.
Howver, you are entitled to your opinion, as shallow as it is.
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
On Aug 28, 2013, at 1:50 PM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:
And that's not racist?
Tom, there are only two things wrong with you - your face!
On Aug 28, 2013, at 1:41 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:Courtesy of the Duffel Blog at:
http://www.duffelblog.com/2013/08/nidal-hasan-granted-terminal-leave/-------------------------------------Nidal Hasan Granted Terminal Leave<AP_nidal_hasan_jef_130806_16x9_992.jpg>FORT HOOD, TX ? A military jury has granted Army Maj. Nidal Hasan terminal leave today, sparking consternation throughout the military.The decision fanned flames sparked by recent revelations that he was continuing to receive full pay and benefits while on trial for an act of workplace violence that left 13 dead and wounded more than 30 others. Witnesses reported that Hasan shouted ?Allahu Akbar? ? Arabic for ?I am dissatisfied with my working conditions? ? during the attack.By granting him terminal leave, the Army will transfer him from active duty to the ?involuntary reserve, dead? list. He will be required to undergo a final physical, including a single vaccination through an IV.His pay and benefits, including respiration and cardiac function, will be stopped.At press time, many observers were !
upset that he had not received a harsher sentence.
-------------------------------------
Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)http://www.moscowcares.com/ Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2013 14:52:07 -0700
From: "Rosemary Huskey" <donaldrose at cpcinternet.com>
To: "'Moscow Vision 2020'" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: [Vision2020] This won't surprise any of us -
Message-ID: <00d801cea75d$84dbd680$8e938380$@com>
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A Plutocracy Ruled by Self-Centered Jerks?
August 27, 2013
by Joshua Holland <http://billmoyers.com/author/hollandj/>
<http://cdn.billmoyers.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/AP100715021885_size.jp
g> Hassan Nemazee, the wealthy Manhattan investment banker, steps over a
security chain as he leaves federal court in Manhattan after being sentenced
to 12 years in prison for bank fraud. (AP Photo/Larry Neumeister)
Hassan Nemazee, the wealthy Manhattan investment banker, steps over a
security chain as he leaves federal court in Manhattan after being sentenced
to 12 years in prison for bank fraud. (AP Photo/Larry Neumeister)
Two studies released last week confirmed what most of us already knew: the
ultra-wealthy tend to be narcissistic and have a greater sense of
entitlement than the rest of us, and Congress only pays attention to their
interests. Both studies are consistent with earlier research.
In the first study
<http://psp.sagepub.com/content/early/2013/08/19/0146167213501699.full#aff-1
> , published in the current Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin,
Paul Piff of UC Berkeley conducted five experiments which demonstrated that
"higher social class is associated with increased entitlement and
narcissism." Given the opportunity, Piff also found that they were more
likely to check themselves out in a mirror than were those of lesser means.
Piff looked at how participants scored on a standard scale of "psychological
entitlement," and found that those of a high social class - based on income
levels, education and occupational prestige - were more likely to say "I
honestly feel I'm just more deserving than others," while people further
down the social ladder were likelier to respond, "I do not necessarily
deserve special treatment."
In an earlier study
<http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/02/21/1118373109.full.pdf+html> ,
published last year in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences,
Piff and four researchers from the University of Toronto conducted a series
of experiments which found that "upper-class individuals behave more
unethically than lower-class individuals." This included being more likely
to "display unethical decision-making," steal, lie during a negotiation and
cheat in order to win a contest.
In one telling experiment, the researchers observed a busy intersection, and
found that drivers of luxury cars were more likely to cut off other drivers
and less likely to stop for pedestrians crossing the street than those
behind the wheels of more modest vehicles. "In our crosswalk study, none of
the cars in the beater-car category drove through the crosswalk," Piff told
The New York Times
<http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/12/the-rich-drive-differently-a-stu
dy-suggests/?_r=0> . "But you see this huge boost in a driver's likelihood
to commit infractions in more expensive cars." He added: "BMW drivers are
the worst."
Summing up previous research on the topic, Piff notes that upper-class
individuals also "showed reduced sensitivity to others' suffering" as
compared with working- and middle-class people.
Lower-class individuals are more likely to spend time taking care of others,
and they are more embedded in social networks that depend on mutual aid. By
contrast, upper-class individuals prioritize independence from others: They
are less motivated than lower-class individuals to build social
relationships and instead seek to differentiate themselves from others.
These findings may appear to represent a bit of psychological trivia, but a
study
<http://prq.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/10/04/1065912912459567.abstract?p
apetoc> to be published in Political Science Quarterly by Thomas Hayes, a
scholar at Trinity University, finds that U.S. senators respond almost
exclusively to the interests of their wealthiest constituents - those more
likely to be unethical and less sensitive to the suffering of others,
according to Piff.
Hayes took data from the Annenberg Election Survey - a massive database of
public opinion representing the views of 90,000 voters - and compared them
with their senators' voting records from 2001 through 2010. From 2007
through 2010, U.S. senators were somewhat responsive to the interests of the
middle class, but hadn't been for the first 6 years Hayes studied. The views
of the poor didn't factor into legislators' voting tendencies at all.
As Eric Dolan noted for
<http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/19/oligarchic-tendencies-study-finds-onl
y-the-wealthy-get-represented-in-the-senate/> The Raw Story, "The neglect of
lower income groups was a bipartisan affair. Democrats were not any more
responsive to the poor than Republicans." Hayes wrote that his analysis
"suggests oligarchic tendencies in the American system, a finding echoed in
other research."
Hayes' study is consistent with earlier research, including Princeton
University scholar Larry Bartels' 2005 study
<http://www.princeton.edu/~bartels/economic.pdf> of "Economic Inequality
and Political Representation."
There are a few of ways of looking at these findings. They could be the
result of genuinely held ideological beliefs which happen to justify
inequality and privilege.
According to OpenSecrets <http://www.opensecrets.org/pfds/averages.php> ,
the average net worth of senators in 2011 was $11.9 million, so it could be
a matter of legislators advancing their own interests and those of the
people with whom they socialize and associate.
But MIT economist Daron Acemoglu, who co-authored
<http://www.amazon.com/Why-Nations-Fail-Prosperity-ebook/dp/B0058Z4NR8> Why
Nations Fail with Harvard's James Robinson, says that this kind of political
inequality is a product of widening economic disparities. "It's a general
pattern throughout history," he told Think Progress
<http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/03/23/451166/acemoglu-income-inequali
ty-political-powe/> . "When economic inequality increases, the people who
have become economically more powerful will often attempt to use that power
in order to gain even more political power. And once they are able to
monopolize political power, they will start using that for changing the
rules in their favor. And that sort of political inequality is the real
danger that's facing the United States."
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