[Vision2020] Alive at 25 (Sept 29, 2013)

Thu Sep 5 13:59:14 PDT 2013

Spot on as usual Saundra.  I'm in complete agreement too.  :)

Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2013 13:25:14 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Alive at 25 (Sept 29, 2013)
From: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
To: v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
CC: scooterd408 at hotmail.com; vision2020 at moscow.com

Just to be clear, I agree with all of this. I won't try to make what I was trying to say since this message is more important anyway. Joe

On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 12:57 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> wrote:

I believe that impaired driving – from any cause – is something to be actively discouraged and educated against.  And, I’ll state the obvious that apparently isn’t so obvious to far too many.  Impaired driving includes those taking prescription drugs exactly as prescribed that may alter consciousness and/or reflexes, and impaired driving includes “drowsy driving” (driving when you’ve not gotten sufficient rest), which is estimated to be a factor in 3-33% of traffic fatalities.  Impaired driving also includes those who get behind the wheel after consuming too much caffeine, for that matter.
 For the record, I’m also staunchly against distracted driving, and believe that, too should be actively discouraged and educated against.  Perhaps the most frequent car conversation when my daughter was growing up was her saying, “Mom!  Look at XYZ,” followed by my response, “I can’t right now – I’m driving!”  I was almost run over by an adult female idiot on a cell phone in the mall parking lot a couple of years back, and my then-five-year-old daughter & I were almost backed over in the Jackson St. parking lot by an idiot young adult male driver in a carload of idiots with blaring music and a driver who couldn’t be bothered to look in his mirror before gunning it to back out of a parking spot.  Idiots.
 All of that said, back when I lived in CA, I had a friend who was a police officer in a large city, and he often told the story that he & his cop pals could easily differentiate impaired drivers who’d been smoking marijuana as opposed to those who had been drinking.  The marijuana-impaired drivers where the ones going way below the speed limit and stopping way before the pavement limit line of traffic lights and stop signs whereas drunk drivers were all over the road, swore they were only going 25 MPH when they were clocked at much higher actual speeds, frequently blew through lights & stop signs, and so forth.
 In any case, my cop friend’s experience has stuck with me through all these years.  I don’t want to cross paths with an impaired or distracted driver, but I’d much rather cross paths with a driver impaired by marijuana only than with an alcohol-impaired driver . . . hands down.
 YMMV

SaundraMoscow, ID
 Atrocities are no less atrocities when they occur in laboratories and are called research.
~ George Bernard Shaw 

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Joe Campbell

Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2013 8:08 PM
To: Scott Dredge
Cc: viz
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Alive at 25 (Sept 29, 2013)
 Look, I'm not denying that the advice is good. Nor would I advocate drinking and driving, smoking pot and driving, etc. But who needs these messages? Does any "good" kid think that drinking and driving, smoking pot and driving is a good decision to make? Are there folks who are confused about this fact? Thus, you are preaching to the choir. Now some folks genuinely need the advice no doubt. But acting as if what those folks are missing information is just way out of touch with the actual situation. They know they shouldn't do it, too, but for some of those folks that is precisely why they do it. For others, they know they shouldn't and do it anyway for reasons unclear. 

All of this is just status quo; it is just the very situation we have in the USA. There are good folks and they get the message and bad folks who don't and for the latter we lock them up in prison where they belong. And that's where we're at now, where we keep locking folks up but somehow the problems persist. One day we need to wake up to the fact that the "bad" folks fall into a few distinct categories: they are poor, they have at most one parental role model (though more likely just one parent and no models), or they suffer from some form of mental illness. And then what purpose was the advice doing? Didn't you already make that clear to your kids in the first place? And sharing it on the V is good because somehow one of us forgot to tell our sons or daughters that drinking and driving was bad?
 On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
I've never claimed to be a libertarian. Why are you bent about any of this? 'Alive at 25' is a class that teaches about the reality of the statistically increased probably of injury or death to younger / less experienced drivers.  My only comment was that I hoped marijuana would be considered as one of the 'party drugs' they'd mentioned on the web site. To put it bluntly, they should advise people to not ever drive when they're stoned, drunk, or in any other impaired condition.  How can you even argue against such sane advice?

-Scott
On Sep 4, 2013, at 6:04 PM, "Joe Campbell" <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
People die from skiing, from driving, from walking, from living. Should we resist those activities? Here is my view. Let people do whatever they want as long as it doesn't interfere with others. Sure there are costs but not nearly as much as the costs of our high cost prison system. Some wish that they could believe in a nice white guy in the sky that will give them life ever after if only they choose to believe. Others cannot buy that because it sounds to them like a bunch of crap. (I'm still on the fence.) Life is hard and the fear of death causes folks to avoid thinking about it in all kinds of ways, sometimes (ironically) to the extent in which their indulgences make them that much closer too it. Arrest folks who drive drunk, high, whatever -- whenever their actions place risk upon the lives and interests of others -- but stop judging people and just let them live their own lives the best they can.
By the way, you are officially NO libertarian in my book, Scott. 
On Wed, Sep 4, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com> wrote:
I would hope "marijuana" would be considered a subset of "party drugs" and thus would be discouraged.

>From the website:
DDC-Alive at 25 teaches young adults that: 
People in their age group are more likely to be hurt or killed in a vehicle crash.Inexperience, distractions, and peer pressure cause unique driving hazards.
Speeding, alcohol, and "party drugs" greatly increase their risk of injury or death.As a driver or passenger, they can greatly reduce their risk by taking control.
Committing to changing their driving behavior makes personal, legal and financial sense. 
From: skalasz at ci.moscow.id.us
To: vision2020 at moscow.com

Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2013 21:11:47 +0000
Subject: [Vision2020] Alive at 25 (Sept 29, 2013) 
Our Next Class:  
Sunday, September 29, 2013, 3:30 pm to 8:00 pm 
at the Moscow Police Department. 
Alive at 25 is a young driver intervention program developed by the National Safety Council for drivers between 14 and 24 years of age. Alive at 25 was implemented in Idaho in 2010. This course is a 4.5 hour program that focuses on the decision making processes and behaviors that young drivers and passengers display in a motor vehicle and is designed to prevent the number one killer of teens, automobile crashes.
Alive at 25 is taught exclusively by law enforcement officers who hold candid conversations with students about what can happen if they practice risky behavior or make other poor decisions in an automobile. This highly interactive program encourages young drivers between the ages of 14 and 24 to take responsibility for their driving behavior. 
Our next class is scheduled for September 29, 2013.  There is no cost.  If you are interested in your child or young adult attending this class, please register on line at www.AliveAt25.us
If you have any questions, please feel free to contact either myself or Cpl. Bruce Lovell at the Moscow Police Department.

<image004.jpg> <image003.png>Cpl. Art Lindquist

            Moscow Police Department
            118 East 4th Street 
            Moscow, Idaho  83843
            alindquist at ci.moscow.id.us

            208-883-7129

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