[Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .

Fri Oct 18 02:23:04 PDT 2013

I agree with Paul . . . and like Paul, I’m not a legal scholar  J

However, it’s pretty clear to a non-legal scholar like me (sorry, Paul, I don’t recall the abbreviation you used that I willingly accept) that a natural born citizen is something that happens at or by birth by virtue of having one parent who is a US citizen regardless of where the birth actually happened . . . as long as the US citizen parent(s) hasn’t/haven’t repudiated their US citizenship.

I completely reject Tom’s argument that you either have to be born in the US or in “an American” hospital if not in country as long as you have at least one parent who is a US citizen.  I personally find it repugnant and wholly unacceptable to think that a child could be denied “natural born” status simply because the taxi (or bicycle or whatever) didn’t make it to “an American hospital” in time for the baby’s birth.

But, I also find it problematic that children born elsewhere and adopted at birth or shortly after by US citizens are barred from ever running for President.  And while I Get the notion that we want people who are invested in making America the best she can be, I’m not sure that requires excluding candidates who were born elsewhere but have lived decades in this country & because naturalized citizen.  For me, I’m more interested in choosing from the best of the best this country has to offer.

Besides, I’d love to see Teddy-boy Cruz run for President!!!  That might be one of the best slap-downs by his own party that happens in my lifetime  J

Saundra Lund

Moscow, ID

It's a matter of taking the side if the weak against the strong, something the best people have always done.

~ Harriet Beecher Stowe

From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rumelhart
Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2013 5:04 PM
To: Tom Hansen; Ron Force
Cc: Moscow Vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Question, V-Peeps . . .

What are your thoughts on the idea, posited by the Congressional Research Service report that (paraphrased) if a person is a US citizen "at birth" or "by birth" that they should be considered to be "natural born"?

That's why his US citizenship at the time of his birth is important to this discussion.

Paul

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 4:59 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

The question concerns eligibility to run for President of the United States, not U.S. citizenship.

Yes.  Sen. Cruz is a U.S. citizen and has been since his birth . . . in Canada.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still 

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Oct 17, 2013, at 4:54 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:

Take it from the U.S. State Department, quoting U.S. Statute:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_5199.html

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock

A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) of the INA(Immigration and nationality Act) provided the U.S. citizen parent was physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen, is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen, is required for physical presence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.) The U.S. citizen parent must be genetically related to the child to transmit U.S. citizenship.

Ron Force
Moscow Idaho USA

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:56 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

He was born abroad and his mother was a U.S. citizen at the time.  It's my understanding that this makes him a U.S. citizen "at birth" or "by birth".  Again, I'm not a legal authority on this issue.  It also apparently makes him a Canadian citizen as well, which doesn't factor in unless he's trying to run for Prime Minister.

Again, not a legal scholar, and I've pretty much reached the end of my knowledge on this subject, such that it is.

Paul

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:30 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

I reiterate, Mr. Rumelhart . . .

Sen. Cruz is not an "American born overseas".  He is/was a Canadian born in Alberta.

Se. John McCain is an "American born overseas", as he was born in a U.S. Navy hospital in Panama.  "American born overseas" qualifies those born in American hospitals overseas as a consideration to the "natural born" requirement of the U.S. Constitution.

Otherwise, children of U.S. service members (soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines), born overseas woukd not be considered American citizens.

Ok?

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still 

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Oct 17, 2013, at 2:10 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

Then perhaps you should be having this debate with those "legal scholars" mentioned in the article.

Paul

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 2:03 PM, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

I simply stated that Sen. Cruz is not eligible to run for President of the United States . . . and supported my statement with the U.S. Constitution.

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still 

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Oct 17, 2013, at 1:54 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com> wrote:

Are you serious?  I suspect you are throwing Obama birther arguments at me as if I was one, which I'm not.  You seem to have a very "us/everyone else" view of the cosmos.  

Just in case you are serious, I've already explained that I am not a legal scholar, but agree that if the general agreement between legal scholars is that he is eligible, then that seems like the likely answer.

In answer to your last question, the only thing stopping them is the common sense and good taste of the actual women involved.

Paul

On Thursday, October 17, 2013 1:43 PM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:

As a citizen, born of a US parent outside the US, I'd have to say yes he qualifies, and apparently so does Sarah Duggin at Catholic University.

 It would be reasonable to interpret the Constitution’s natural born citizenship provision to include children born abroad to U.S. citizens, including Senator Cruz, for a number of reasons," she said.

On Oct 17, 2013, at 1:04 PM, Tom Hansen wrote:

Again, I ask . . .

Is Sen. Ted Cruz constitutionally eligible to run for President of the United States?

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still 

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

On Oct 17, 2013, at 12:49 PM, Wayne Price <bear at moscow.com> wrote:

Oh great, suddenly YOU are a birther? *S*

Why don't you just do what you wanted everyone else to do, suck it up!

On Oct 17, 2013, at 11:08 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:

Is Sen. Ted Cruz constitutionally eligible to run for President of the United States?

-------------------------------------

Section 1, Article II of the United States Constitution.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/articleii

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States."

-------------------------------------

Sen. Ted Cruz's birth certificate shows he was born in Canada in 1970. It was released exclusively to The Dallas Morning News.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/headlines/20130818-canada-born-ted-cruz-became-a-citizen-of-that-country-as-well-as-u.s..ece?nclick_check=1

<CRUZ_0819NAT_32638724.JPG>

-------------------------------------

Thoughts?

Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .

"Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)

http://www.MoscowCares.com <http://www.moscowcares.com/> 

Tom Hansen

Moscow, Idaho

"There's room at the top they are telling you still 

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill 
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- John Lennon

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