[Vision2020] If you can't keep them from stopping.....

Janesta janesta at gmail.com
Thu Oct 10 09:26:13 PDT 2013

People are still hiking The Grand Canyon. Not many, they sneak in, and go
anyway.. aerial tours are seeing 100+ more customers a day... This is
attributed to people who already were here, or, it was too late to cancel
plans to the Arizona National Park.  The number of customers will return to
normal in a few weeks.


On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 8:58 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:

> There is a fundamental difference in thought going on in this whole
> debate.  The Feds are taking a statist point of view.  We're the
> government, it's our land, we can take away access and if we want to make a
> point of it we will.  The other view is that the land is owned by the
> people, and the government is there to act as a steward for the land.  In
> that scenario, a government shutdown means that the land is open for use,
> you just shouldn't expect any services to be provided.
> This basic difference in views seems to permeate many of the debates going
> on these days.  It's basically the government vs. the individual.  Take the
> Affordable Care Act.  The government wants this program to work, and in
> order to make it work you need everyone to buy into it.  That's why they
> are forcing it on us.  Individualists, on the other hand, think that their
> own health is their own responsibility, not the governments.  Thus, they
> reject the view that a citizen can be forced to buy something they don't
> want to have, despite the "Oh, we can tax 'em if they don't get sign up and
> still be legal!" loophole they are using.
> In my personal view, the Executive Branch has been on a power grab for
> decades.  This is the biggest threat to the People I can think of.  That's
> not to say that I think the government is evil, it's doing this based on
> good intentions for the most part.  But we know which road is paved with
> those.
> Paul
>   On Thursday, October 10, 2013 2:07 AM, Saundra Lund <
> v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> wrote:
>  "A state highway that runs through the national park was closed after
> Grand
> Canyon officials found tourists removing barricades at overlooks along the
> road."
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/nearly-two-dozen-cited-for-en
> tering-grand-canyon-after-budget-battle-forced-parks-closure/2013/10/09/94a7
> 2f2e-30dd-11e3-ad00-ec4c6b31cbed_story.html
> Yes -- I'm glad you agree that those "tourists" are responsible for the
> necessary decision to close the highway since they thought they were
> special
> enough that they could just move the barricades.  You & I both know that if
> something went wrong with their illegal behavior, they'd be the first to
> sue, something they made clear to us with their reckless behavior.
> Yeah, it sucks when a few spoil things for the many, so I'm glad to see
> your
> ire directed where it belongs :  at the "tourists."
> -----Original Message-----
> From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com]
> On Behalf Of Kai Eiselein
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 2:28 PM
> To: vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: [Vision2020] If you can't keep them from stopping.....
> Then shut down the highway.
> http://www.outsideonline.com/news-from-the-field/Citations-Issued-at-Grand-C
> anyon.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebookpost
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