[Vision2020] Once upon a time . . .

Mon Nov 18 10:31:40 PST 2013

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You are correct. I am reading book on the CIA by John Prados. Kennedy authorized the overthrow of Diem. According to Prados (relying on declassified records) The CIA bungled more operations than they were successful at. Most of these were not rouge. They operated with the full backing of the Whitehouse. I am up to the Ford Administration and things have not changed much.
Roger

-----Original Message-----
From: "Ron Force" <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
To: "vision2020 at moscow com" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Date: 11/17/13 21:29
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Once upon a time . . .

One must remember the history of the era (which I lived through). It was a time when Communism seemed monolithic and powerful. The Democrats were attacked for having "lost China" in 1949. The McCarthy era (late 50's) made it seem that the government was infiltrated by traitors. Government employees at all levels were required to swear loyalty oaths. Kennedy was assailed early in his term for having botched the invasion of Cuba.

Kennedy was trying classical counter-insurgency tactics in Vietnam that the British had used in Malaysia --moving the population into secure villages, building guerrilla armies out of the ethnic minorities-- remember, he pushed the Green Berets to the fore. These policies and the strict Catholic policies of Diem were alienating the population. When the Catholic President Ngo Dinh Diem appeared to be losing the support of the Buddhist majority. the CIA funded a military coup that ended in Diem's assassination. Kennedy was assassinated three weeks later. 

Although some claimed that Kennedy would have withdraw from Vietnam, it's hard to find any support for this theory in his actions. The same foreign policy and military advisers continued with Johnson. Both Kennedy, Johnson, and the people around them firmly believed in the "domino theory". Johnson didn't want the Democrats charged with "losing Vietnam", so as the situation in the country deteriorated excuses were found to escalate the conflict. Given the general psychology. foreign policies, and public anxieties of the period, it's hard to believe that Kennedy wouldn't have sent the troops in, just as Johnson did.

Ron Force
Moscow Idaho USA

 On Sunday, November 17, 2013 4:49 PM, Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com> wrote:

 Not necessarily. It is possible Kenndy had a way, or would have found a way to end the conflict. He did get us out of the Cuban missle crisis. He also set forth the mission to put a man on the Moon. It is entirely possible his wanting to not escalate Vietnam was a cause of this assassination. How much was made off that war? Why did Johnson refuse to end, even at his demise, and forced Humphrey to tske the same stance.
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

From: Kai Eiselein <fotopro63 at hotmail.com>;
To: Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>; vision2020 at moscow.com <vision2020 at moscow.com>;
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Once upon a time . . .
Sent: Sun, Nov 17, 2013 8:00:59 PM

 By the time Kennedy was assassinated, the US had thousands of troops in Vietnam and servicemen had already been coming home in body bags.
In 1960 there were 900 US troops in Vietnam, in 1961 that number increased to 3,205, the number jumped to 11,300 in 1962 and was 16,300 by the end of 1963.
The US was going to be in Vietnam under Kennedy, that is clear because the numbers show it.
I think Kennedy's legacy would have been far different had he not been killed. Vietnam would have been his debacle.

________________________________
> Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 09:55:18 -0800
> From: godshatter at yahoo.com
> To: thansen at moscow.com; vision2020 at moscow.com
> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Once upon a time . . .
> 
> 
> Had he not been assassinated, I think we would be in a far better place 
> as a nation right now.  I don't think we would have sent combat troops 
> into Vietnam, and I don't think the intelligence agencies and the 
> military industrial complex would be so large.
> 
> I wonder whether L. Fletcher Prouty's contention that his assassination 
> was a coup d'etat by the intelligence communities and the military 
> industrial complex was correct.  It would explain a lot, and as 
> Kennedy's Chief of Special Operations on the Joint Chiefs of Staff at 
> the time he would be in a position to know.
> 
> Was our current President shown details of Kennedy's assassination 
> after he took office, with the message being that he wasn't as safe as 
> he thought he was?  I don't know, but it would explain a lot about why 
> he suddenly reversed his stance on many of the things he was elected to 
> take care of, such as abuses of the Patriot Act and Gitmo.
> 
> I haven't seen anything to make me think that was the case beyond a 
> doubt, but it does make me wonder.
> 
> Paul
> 
> On 11/17/2013 09:04 AM, Tom Hansen wrote:
> [https://blu174.afx.ms/att/GetInline.aspx?messageid=797ab025-4fb1-11e3-9305-00215ad9bb8e&attindex=0&cp=-1&attdepth=0&imgsrc=cid%3apart1.08020709.07090902%40yahoo.com&cid=1f65f128adc44fc7&hm__login=fotopro63&hm__domain=hotmail.com&ip=10.43.236.8&d=d3437&mf=128&hm__ts=Sun%2c%2017%20Nov%202013%2019%3a50%3a40%20GMT&st=fotopro63&hm__ha=01_602fb84cc4603f9c909c359236110d8275a5814184808c60b0a90fd08b8b1f8e&oneredir=1] 
> 
> "High Hopes - Jack Kennedy" by Frank Sinatra
> http://www.tomandrodna.com/songs/High_Hopes_Kennedy_Sinatra.mp3
> 
> "Everyone is voting for Jack
> 'Cause he's got what all the rest lack
> Everyone wants to back --Jack
> 'Cause he's got high hopes
> He's got high hopes
> Nineteen Sixty's the year for his high hopes.
> Come on and vote for Kennedy
> Vote for Kennedy
> And We'll come out on top!
> Oops, there goes the opposition - ker -
> Oops, there goes the opposition - ker -
> Oops, there goes the opposition - KERPLOP!
> 
> K--E--DOUBLE N--E--D--Y
> Jack's the nations' favorite guy
> Everyone wants to back --Jack
> Jack is on the right track.
> 'Cause he's got high hopes
> He's got high hopes
> Nineteen Sixty's the year for his high hopes.
> Come on and vote for Kennedy
> Vote for Kennedy
> Keep America strong.
> Kennedy, he just keeps rollin' - a -
> Kennedy, he just keeps rollin' - a -
> Kennedy, he just keeps rollin' along."
> 
> Seeya 'round town, Moscow, because . . .
> 
> "Moscow Cares" (the most fun you can have with your pants on)
> http://www.MoscowCares.com
> 
> Tom Hansen
> Moscow, Idaho
> 
> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
> 
> - John Lennon
> 
> 
> 
> 
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 serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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