[Vision2020] Why do we need immigration reform?

Mon Jul 29 14:15:25 PDT 2013

<About three million undocumented immigrants [under Reagan] were granted legal status. And what has happened since?>
The same thing that happens to a lot of folks once they gain legal status.  They no longer want to work in the fields for low wage jobs when they're entitled by law to be compensated for minimum wage at the very least.

<Before I would support any type of "immigration reform", I want to see the current laws enforced.>
Some of these laws may be completing outdated/obsolete and others just may be ineffective/unenforceable.  These laws can be updated and tightened without wide scale 'reform'.  It might be wise to have 2 or 3 phase approach where the current system is tweaked to bring it up to date followed by some further minor additions followed by the final fixes.

I'm still looking for definitions of the problems.  They seem to be:
- There is work needed to be done that pays very low wages (below the legal minimum).  If minimum wage if enforced for these jobs, the employer will lose money and thus simply not have the work performed, will have the work done by him or herself and with friends/family members, or will find a way against the law to have this work performed.
- People from other parts of the world are willing to cross the US borders illegally to get into 'the land of opportunity' where they can work back breaking jobs for low wages and believe they are much better off than they would be in the home countries.
- Illegal aliens in general seem to pay very little in taxes and yet consume resources funded by tax dollars?
- Granting amnesty to illegal aliens would reward them for entering the country illegally and be unfair to others residents who are have come to the United States through the proper legal channels? This would encourage more people to come to the US illegally?
- ...

-Scott

Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Why do we need immigration reform?
From: bear at moscow.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2013 10:48:53 -0700
CC: vision2020 at moscow.com
To: scooterd408 at hotmail.com

Scott,
I agree that the US needs, and in my opinion, HAS a system  that is a clear, fair, and realistic path to citizenship.What I object to is that the first "act" in the United States that illegal immigrants commit is a crime, by the very act of stepping across the border illegally, and it is the perception that little if anything is being done  to catch, prosecute and deport those that have entered illegally. (See 8 USC 1325)
Before I would support any type of "immigration reform", I want to see the current laws enforced.  The American people were taken in once by "immigration reform" back under Regan. The line was drawn in sand by that law, The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 (Pub. L.  99-603;  100 Stat. 3359).  That Act legalized illegal immigrants who entered the United States before January 1, 1982 and had resided there continuously with the penalty of a fine, back taxes due, and admission of guilt. About three million undocumented immigrants were granted legal status. And what has happened since? 
Wayne   

On Jul 29, 2013, at 10:12 AM, Donovan Arnold wrote:Scott, You are for a working slave class. I don't want that in the United States, it is unconstitutional and immoral. I do not believe in taxation without representation. I don't believe in working classes of people based on race, or nation of origin. I think the US should come up with a clear, fair, and realistic path to citizenship. "But I also don't see those engaging in 'hard labor' as pushing for 'livible wages' or the right to vote." You must have your eyes closed then.  Donovan J. Arnold
        From: Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>
 To: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.com>; viz <vision2020 at moscow.com> 
 Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 11:16 AM
 Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Why do we need immigration reform?

<So you want a return of slavery?>No.  I'm asking what are the problems presently with the status quo and asking for a justification of why any of it needs to be 'reformed'.<Hard labor without a liveable wage and no right to vote?>I don't want this.  But I also don't see those engaging in 'hard labor' as pushing for 'livible wages' or the right to vote.  If we're talking about migrant farm workers, they are represented in some fashion I think by the UFW.  Also, I believe they're getting more opportunity in the US even being 'undocumented' than would be getting in their native land.  Otherwise, they would just go back home.<Taxation without any representation?>How so?  Green Carders =
 United States Permanent Residents.  They are taxed at the same rates as full citizens.  Do you think they should be not taxed in any form since they don't have voting rights?  I don't think so.  They have the option to pursue full citizenship to get voting rights if they so choose.<Why don't we instead make it so millionaires cannot vote, run for office, or donate to any campaigns?>Because this would be unconstitutional.-ScottDate: Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:03:21 -0700From: donovanjarnold2005 at yahoo.comSubject: Re: [Vision2020] Why do we need immigration reform?To: vision2020 at moscow.com; scooterd408 at hotmail.comSo you want a return of slavery? Hard labor without a liveable wage and no right to vote? Taxation without any representation? Why don't we instead make it so millionaires cannot vote, run for office, or donate to any campaigns? 
Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

                                From:

                            Scott Dredge <scooterd408 at hotmail.com>;                            

                                To:

                            viz <vision2020 at moscow.com>;                                                                                                     

                                Subject:

                            [Vision2020] Why do we need immigration reform?                            

                                Sent:

                            Sun, Jul 28, 2013 5:53:31 PM                            

                                        Hi all,I haven't followed the brouhaha regarding immigration reform.  What exactly are the problems that are at issue?  We already have a vast array of student and work visas that could be leveraged IMO.  Beyond that, it's obvious that the more immigrants that achieve full citizenship will be voting for the Democrats.  Thus, a good middle ground would be a path to Green Card which provides most rights except for voting rights.  Green Carders might like that even better since they'd not need to be burdened by the civic duty of sitting on a jury.-Scott 		 	   		  

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