[Vision2020] gun shows

Sun Jan 27 21:55:06 PST 2013

Dan,

I don't think you are erroneously filling out form 4473 when you purchase any firearm. But I don't think the Feds track the item you are purchasing or that they keep those records. From what I've read, the vendor must retain the form, but does not transmit the information in the checking process.

So I figure that the manufacturer/distributor can report who they transferred the gun to, and law enforcement can check with them to see who they sold to. I could be wrong, and have some confidence if I am that I will be corrected.

Sunil

From: areaman at moscow.com
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 20:05:25 -0800
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] gun shows

So Tom, you're telling me that I have erroneously filled out form 4473 every time I've purchased a long gun?
DC
On Jan 27, 2013, at 19:59, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> wrote:

g . . . g . . . g -
Yes. Apparently the Federal Form 4473 is required to be completed and submitted to the ATF ON FIREARMS THAT THEY (THE ATF) REQUIRE TO BE REGISTERED.
Again . . .
http://www.atf.gov/contact/faq/ "Some examples of the types of NFA firearms that must be registered are: Machine guns, frames or receivers of machine guns; any combination of parts designed and intended for use in converting weapons into machine guns; any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machine gun; any combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if the parts are in the possession or under the control of a person; silencers and any part designed and intended for fabricating a silencer; short-barreled rifles and shotguns; molotov cocktails, anti-tank guns (over caliber .50), bazookas, and mortars.
A few examples of 'any other weapon' are: H&R Handyguns, Ithaca auto-burglar guns, cane guns, gadget-type firearms and “pen” guns which fire a projectile by the action of an explosive."
Another thing:  I NEVER suggested/implied that local authorities are stupid.  I never will, as my father was a police officer for 36 years.  Some day I will have to post a photo of my dad (in uniform) next to a scanned photo of his retirement badge that I proudly maintain in my family archives . . . but not for a while, a LOOOOOOONG while.
Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares"http://www.MoscowCares.com  Tom HansenMoscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon

On Jan 27, 2013, at 7:25 PM, "Gary Crabtree" <jampot at roadrunner.com> wrote:

Federal form 4473 must be filled out for every firearm 
purchase. They are on file and local law enforcement has access to them. If 
you purchased the weapon through a private sale they will contact the original 
purchaser and then follow the chain of ownership. The cops aren't as stupid as 
you make them out to be.

g

From: Tom Hansen 
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2013 7:04 PM
To: Dan Carscallen 
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com 
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] gun shows

What federal form did they have you 
fill out?

According to the Bureau of Alcohol, 
Tobacco, and FIREARMS [my emphasis] . . .

http://www.atf.gov/contact/faq/

"Some 
examples of the types of NFA firearms that must be registered are: Machine 
guns, frames or receivers of machine guns; any combination of parts designed and 
intended for use in converting weapons into machine guns; any part designed and 
intended solely and exclusively for converting a weapon into a machine gun; any 
combination of parts from which a machine gun can be assembled if the parts are 
in the possession or under the control of a person; silencers and any part 
designed and intended for fabricating a silencer; short-barreled rifles and 
shotguns; molotov cocktails, anti-tank guns (over caliber .50), bazookas, and 
mortars."

Here's a little something for your 
bookshelf . . . 

The National Firearms Act 
Handbook
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/nfa-handbook/

'Nuff said!

Seeya round town, Moscow, because . 
. .

"Moscow Cares"
http://www.MoscowCares.com

Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho

"There's 
room at the top they are telling you still But 
first you must learn how to smile as you kill If 
you want to be like the folks on the hill."

- 
John Lennon

On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:53 PM, Dan 
Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> 
wrote:

  Well, the Feds know what rifles and/or shotguns I have purchased (or can 
  easily find out) because each of the reputable dealers where the sale was made 
  had me full out the federal form. Each form has my name and the serial number 
  of the firearm, thereby linking it to me.  Is that in a state or national 
  database? I don't know. I'm not a gun dealer, just a buyer and owner.

  Maybe not registration in the purest sense, but a form of it 
  nonetheless.

DC

On Jan 27, 2013, at 18:46, Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com> 
  wrote:

    Ahem, mr. Carscallen 

    http://crime.about.com/od/gunlawsbystate/f/gunlaws_id.htm

    Rifles and 
    Shotguns

      Permit to purchase rifles and 
      shotguns? No

      Registration of rifles and 
      shotguns? No

      Licensing of owners of rifles and 
      shotguns? No

      Permit to carry rifles and 
      shotguns? NoMy claim is also supported by Idaho state law 
    at:

    http://www.211.idaho.gov/elibrary/FirearmLaws.html

    Seeya round town, Moscow, 
    because . . .

    "Moscow Cares"
    http://www.MoscowCares.com

    Tom Hansen
    Moscow, Idaho

    "There's 
    room at the top they are telling you still But 
    first you must learn how to smile as you kill If 
    you want to be like the folks on the hill."

    - 
    John Lennon

On Jan 27, 2013, at 6:26 PM, 
    Dan Carscallen <areaman at moscow.com> 
    wrote:

      Tom says:

      Rifles are not 
      registered

Yes 
      they are. I've filled out the requisite paperwork. 

DC

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