[Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!
Saundra Lund
v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm
Mon Jan 21 17:31:53 PST 2013
That's nothing more than inaccurate early reporting that's since been
factually disproven.
If you disagree, then you are also advocating that the shooter's brother,
also inaccurately identified to Pete Williams by those same federal & state
sources, should be arrested as one of the shooters even though subsequent
investigation cleared up that misinformation!
And, law enforcement should be looking for more shooters because early
reporting indicated the possibility of more than one shooter!!
And, the shooter's mother really worked at Sandy Hook Elementary School at
the time of the shooting!!!
And, the shooter had a recent confrontation with several Sandy Hook
Elementary School staff!!!!
And so forth.
You've made it clear you don't have any concern whatsoever for accuracy, but
for those who *do* care:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/us/connecticut-school-shooting/index.html
http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/newtown.asp
The second link successfully debunks ***many*** of the fallacies you & your
pals without a shred of decency amongst the lot are working overtime to
spread.
Saundra
Moscow, ID
Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
~ Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Crabtree [mailto:jampot at roadrunner.com]
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 4:54 PM
To: Saundra Lund; Gary Crabtree
Cc: vision 2020
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495
"...certifiably crazy conspiracy anti-government birther bloggers?"
g
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Saundra Lund" <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm>
Sent: Monday, January 21, 2013 2:53 PM
To: "Gary Crabtree" <moscowlocksmith at gmail.com>
Cc: "vision 2020" <vision2020 at moscow.com>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!
> Gary, if you personally want to believe certifiably crazy conspiracy
> anti-government birther bloggers instead of those like law enforcement
> and other first responders who were actually there, and the MEs who
> examined the victims, knock yourself out.
>
> But to try to present the baseless unhinged rantings of the lunatic
> fringe as factual rightly completely destroys any credibility you ever
> hoped to have amongst rational and sane people.
>
> Next, you'll be posting that the Sandy Hook Elementary School tragedy
> didn't really happen & was nothing more than a hoax perpetuated by the
> illegitimate president & his anti-gun minions. Those families who lost
> their beloved children are just actors.
>
> Here's a hint. When the men in the white coats come to your door, do
> perhaps the first sane thing you've done in years: LET THEM IN!
> Planet Earth invites your long overdue return to sanity.
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013, at 01:35 PM, Gary Crabtree wrote:
>> What puts the icing on the the let's ban assault weapons cake is the
>> fact that The AR was not used at Newtown. The rifle was left in the
>> the little psychopath's carand was not used at the school. The push
>> to ban a particularly disliked type of firearm is pure opportunism.
>>
>> g
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 12:06 PM, Sunil Ramalingam <
>> sunilramalingam at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Paul,
>> >
>> > You say, 'The sad fact is that if the assault weapons ban had been
>> > in place, Newtown would have happened anyway.'
>> >
>> > How is this a fact? Do you have evidence that this young man would
>> > have had the same access to the weapon if it were not in his home?
>> >
>> > How is this not just your opinion?
>> >
>> > Sunil
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2013 11:39:56 -0800
>> > From: godshatter at yahoo.com
>> > To: philosopher.joe at gmail.com
>> > CC: vision2020 at moscow.com; rhayes at frontier.com
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!
>> >
>> >
>> > It's infringing upon a right that the Constitution itself says
>> > cannot be infringed upon. So, in order to do so anyway, it had
>> > damn well better be a very needed law. The sad fact is that if the
>> > assault weapons ban had been in place, Newtown would have happened
>> > anyway. The guy who did that did it for a reason that was more
>> > complicated than "Hey look! Here's an AR-15!
>> > There's nothing on Netflix, the gym's closed, I'm climbing the
>> > walls here, maybe I should go shoot some kids!"
>> >
>> > I have no doubt that you can buy a gun that works just as well as
>> > an
>> > AR-15
>> > but that doesn't have a pistol grip or a flash suppressor now.
>> > Shortly after this ban, the just-barely non-assault version of the
>> > rifle will come out. The statistics will show that there was a
>> > drop in "assault weapon"
>> > shootings, because the AR-15 mark II won't be counted in them, and
>> > the politicians will try to con the people into thinking they
>> > actually helped anything. This ban is stupid. It's all political,
>> > and it's pointless in a practical sense.
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>> > On 01/19/2013 08:29 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>> >
>> > This is long but let me make clear that there is a considerable
>> > difference between the view that we shouldn't impinge on rights on
>> > a whim and the view I was criticizing. I think we're all in
>> > agreement that whims won't do it.
>> >
>> > On Jan 19, 2013, at 7:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Let's see.
>> >
>> > 1. When the Constitution was written, we'd just finished a war in
>> > which we rebelled against those in authority and claimed our
>> > independence as a nation for ourselves.
>> >
>> > 2. Shortly after that, we wrote our own Constitution, which
>> > describes the ways in which government is limited. No more royal
>> > decrees for us.
>> >
>> > 3. When adding the Bill of Rights, the restriction against
>> > infringing on our right to bear arms was added as the second such
>> > amendment, right after freedom of speech.
>> >
>> > 4. One assumes from this that the right to bear arms was indeed
>> > important to our forefathers. And not because they wanted us to
>> > hunt.
>> >
>> > Given all that, I think it's reasonable to assume that the right in
>> > question shouldn't be infringed upon on a whim. Events like
>> > Newtown are rare, and each one gets splashed across the news for a
>> > month or more because it's very dramatic. I don't like seeing
>> > children die either, but reducing magazine sizes to 10 rounds and
>> > removing scary-looking rifles while leaving just-as-functional
>> > rifles alone isn't going to stop the next spree shooting, even if
>> > it actually makes it's way into law. Klebold was on this tenth
>> > 10-round magazine when he killed himself. This guy that did
>> > Newtown would have had just as easy access to his mothers AR-15,
>> > since there is no way in hell they will pass something that will
>> > make people have to turn them in. An ineffective law passed only
>> > because people are riled up about kids getting shot isn't worth
>> > weakening the 2nd amendment, in my opinion.
>> >
>> > I can get behind better background checks, well thought-out
>> > restrictions on people suspected of being mentally ill (that's a
>> > whole other can of worms when we are talking about people's rights,
>> > but we should start the conversation), better data collection, and
>> > incentives to keep weapons secured and safe. Banning assault
>> > weapons, though, is a farce. It's a political ploy that's using
>> > people's fear and anger to pass something that makes it look like
>> > they are doing something that will help.
>> >
>> > I'm not a member of the NRA, and I think they go way overboard
>> > sometimes.
>> > Still, I haven't seen them or anyone else trying to claim that gun
>> > ownership should be unrestricted. We already have gun
>> > registration, background checks, cooling off periods, and
>> > restrictions against actual assault weapons (i.e. fully automatic
weapons).
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>> > On 01/19/2013 02:01 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>> >
>> > How is the second amendment under threat?
>> >
>> > The NRA interpretation of the 2nd amendment is absurd. It is in
>> > fact so absurd that neither you nor anyone else would try to defend
>> > it in a public setting. Which is why this post will be followed by
>> > silence from you and others.
>> >
>> > The idea that the right to own guns is UNRESTRICTED is absurd. NO
>> > rights are unrestricted. If speech can be restricted, then so can
>> > the sale and purchase of guns. And speech is and can be restricted.
>> >
>> > If the NRA position has something to do with RIGHTS, then you
>> > should be able to name another right that is similarly
>> > unrestricted. But you can't.
>> > The NRA position has nothing to do with rights. It has to do with
>> > gun sales.
>> >
>> > On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Paul Rumelhart
>> > <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > The nerve of those people! Having a rally in support of one of the
>> > amendments to the Constitution! How despicable! How un-American!
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>> > On 01/19/2013 09:32 AM, rhayes at frontier.com wrote:
>> >
>> > Happy Gun Violence day today everyone! Hope you have a bang!
>> >
>> > *From:* "vision2020-request at moscow.com"
>> > <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>> > <vision2020-request at moscow.com> <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>> > *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > *Sent:* Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:06 AM
>> > *Subject:* Vision2020 Digest, Vol 79, Issue 205
>> >
>> > Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
>> > vision2020 at moscow.com
>> >
>> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> > http://mailman.fsr.com/mailman/listinfo/vision2020
>> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> > vision2020-request at moscow.com
>> >
>> > You can reach the person managing the list at
>> > vision2020-owner at moscow.com
>> >
>> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> > than "Re: Contents of Vision2020 digest..."
>> >
>> >
>> > Today's Topics:
>> >
>> > 1. Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Ron Force)
>> > 2. Re: Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Tom Hansen)
>> > 3. Caturday (January 19, 2013) (Tom Hansen)
>> >
>> >
>> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > ---
>> >
>> > Message: 1
>> > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:40:44 -0800 (PST)
>> > From: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
>> > To: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > Subject: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"
>> > Message-ID:
>> > <1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo at web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> >
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk
>> >
>> > ?
>> > Ron Force
>> > Moscow Idaho USA
>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>> > scrubbed...
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>> > 83e8bc1/attachment-0001.html><http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/visi
>> > on2020/attachments/20130118/083e8bc1/attachment-0001.html>
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 2
>> > Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0800
>> > From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>> > To: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
>> > Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"
>> > Message-ID: <CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8 at moscow.com>
>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Gun Rally Planned This Weekend in Coeur d'Alene
>> > http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj
>> >
>> > COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho (AP) - Gun advocates in northern Idaho are
>> > planning a rally and encouraging participants to openly carry
>> > weapons as allowed by Idaho law.
>> >
>> > The Coeur d'Alene Press reports (http://bit.ly/WdqSJr) that the
>> > Second Amendment rally and gun appreciation event is planned for 1 p.m.
>> > Saturday
>> > at Black Sheep Sporting Goods in Coeur d'Alene.
>> >
>> > Organizers say guest speakers include state lawmakers.
>> >
>> > --------------------------------------
>> >
>> > Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>> >
>> > "Moscow Cares"
>> > http://www.MoscowCares.com
>> >
>> > Tom Hansen
>> > Moscow, Idaho
>> >
>> > "There's room at the top they are telling you still But first you
>> > must learn how to smile as you kill If you want to be like the
>> > folks on the hill."
>> >
>> > - John Lennon
>> >
>> >
>> > On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:40 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk
>> > >
>> > > Ron Force
>> > > Moscow Idaho USA
>> > > =======================================================
>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the
>> > > communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> > > http://www.fsr.net
>> > > mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > > =======================================================
>> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was
>> > scrubbed...
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>> > on2020/attachments/20130118/7250b146/attachment-0001.html>
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > Message: 3
>> > Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 06:06:20 -0800
>> > From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>> > To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> > Subject: [Vision2020] Caturday (January 19, 2013)
>> > Message-ID: <
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ======================================================= List
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