[Vision2020] Happy gun violence day!

[Joe Campbell]

I think we're talking passed one another. For one thing, I don't remember
saying anytime recently that I was in favor of banning assault rifles,
though I have discussed some arguments for or against it. For instance, in
the post below the point is that gun control is not necessarily a violation
of the 2nd amendment; that the NRA view is an absurd view.

Yet it seems that no matter what I say, or how careful I am to say it, you
and others read into it some desire to ban guns. But it is consistent for
one to think that (a) some forms of gun control are OK (in theory), even
given our 2nd amendment rights, and (b) no particular form of gun control
makes practical sense (for instance, assault rifles figure in a relatively
small number of acts of gun violence, so banning them won't have a relevant
impact). In fact, I have leanings toward (b), but it is a complex issue. I
lot of the stuff that Saundra and others have said makes me think more
about it. In any event, (b) is logically unrelated to (a), though bad
arguments against gun control confuse the two. As for (b), whether or not a
particular form of gun control makes practical sense would need to be
discussed on a case by case basis. Joe

On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 7:21 PM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:

>
> Let's see.
>
> 1.  When the Constitution was written, we'd just finished a war in which
> we rebelled against those in authority and claimed our independence as a
> nation for ourselves.
>
> 2.  Shortly after that, we wrote our own Constitution, which describes the
> ways in which government is limited.  No more royal decrees for us.
>
> 3.  When adding the Bill of Rights, the restriction against infringing on
> our right to bear arms was added as the second such amendment, right after
> freedom of speech.
>
> 4.  One assumes from this that the right to bear arms was indeed important
> to our forefathers.  And not because they wanted us to hunt.
>
> Given all that, I think it's reasonable to assume that the right in
> question shouldn't be infringed upon on a whim.  Events like Newtown are
> rare, and each one gets splashed across the news for a month or more
> because it's very dramatic.  I don't like seeing children die either, but
> reducing magazine sizes to 10 rounds and removing scary-looking rifles
> while leaving just-as-functional rifles alone isn't going to stop the next
> spree shooting, even if it actually makes it's way into law.  Klebold was
> on this tenth 10-round magazine when he killed himself.  This guy that did
> Newtown would have had just as easy access to his mothers AR-15, since
> there is no way in hell they will pass something that will make people have
> to turn them in.  An ineffective law passed only because people are riled
> up about kids getting shot isn't worth weakening the 2nd amendment, in my
> opinion.
>
> I can get behind better background checks, well thought-out restrictions
> on people suspected of being mentally ill (that's a whole other can of
> worms when we are talking about people's rights, but we should start the
> conversation), better data collection, and incentives to keep weapons
> secured and safe.  Banning assault weapons, though, is a farce.  It's a
> political ploy that's using people's fear and anger to pass something that
> makes it look like they are doing something that will help.
>
> I'm not a member of the NRA, and I think they go way overboard sometimes.
> Still, I haven't seen them or anyone else trying to claim that gun
> ownership should be unrestricted.  We already have gun registration,
> background checks, cooling off periods, and restrictions against actual
> assault weapons (i.e. fully automatic weapons).
>
> Paul
>
> On 01/19/2013 02:01 PM, Joe Campbell wrote:
>
> How is the second amendment under threat?
>
> The NRA interpretation of the 2nd amendment is absurd. It is in fact so
> absurd that neither you nor anyone else would try to defend it in a public
> setting. Which is why this post will be followed by silence from you and
> others.
>
> The idea that the right to own guns is UNRESTRICTED is absurd. NO rights
> are unrestricted. If speech can be restricted, then so can the sale and
> purchase of guns. And speech is and can be restricted.
>
> If the NRA position has something to do with RIGHTS, then you should be
> able to name another right that is similarly unrestricted. But you can't.
> The NRA position has nothing to do with rights. It has to do with gun sales.
>
> On Sat, Jan 19, 2013 at 11:11 AM, Paul Rumelhart <godshatter at yahoo.com>wrote:
>
>>
>> The nerve of those people!  Having a rally in support of one of the
>> amendments to the Constitution!  How despicable!  How un-American!
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On 01/19/2013 09:32 AM, rhayes at frontier.com wrote:
>>
>>  Happy Gun Violence day today everyone! Hope you have a bang!
>>
>>    *From:* "vision2020-request at moscow.com"<vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>> <vision2020-request at moscow.com> <vision2020-request at moscow.com>
>> *To:* vision2020 at moscow.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, January 19, 2013 6:06 AM
>> *Subject:* Vision2020 Digest, Vol 79, Issue 205
>>
>> Send Vision2020 mailing list submissions to
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>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Ron Force)
>>   2. Re: Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day" (Tom Hansen)
>>   3. Caturday (January 19, 2013) (Tom Hansen)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:40:44 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
>> To: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"
>> Message-ID:
>>     <1358570444.77938.YahooMailNeo at web162701.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk
>>
>> ?
>> Ron Force
>> Moscow Idaho USA
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 20:59:17 -0800
>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>> To: Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Moscow Vision2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Saturday is "National Gun Appreciation Day"
>> Message-ID: <CD416371-3602-4B0A-8D55-2B2508E88FB8 at moscow.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>>
>>
>>
>> Gun Rally Planned This Weekend in Coeur d'Alene
>> http://tinyurl.com/agnm5kj
>>
>> COEUR D'ALENE, Idaho (AP) - Gun advocates in northern Idaho are planning
>> a rally and encouraging participants to openly carry weapons as allowed by
>> Idaho law.
>>
>> The Coeur d'Alene Press reports (http://bit.ly/WdqSJr) that the Second
>> Amendment rally and gun appreciation event is planned for 1 p.m. Saturday
>> at Black Sheep Sporting Goods in Coeur d'Alene.
>>
>> Organizers say guest speakers include state lawmakers.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>>
>> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>> "Moscow Cares"
>> http://www.MoscowCares.com
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>> "There's room at the top they are telling you still
>> But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
>> If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
>>
>> - John Lennon
>>
>>
>> On Jan 18, 2013, at 8:40 PM, Ron Force <rforce2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fWHFMQ8Wlk
>> >
>> > Ron Force
>> > Moscow Idaho USA
>> > =======================================================
>> > List services made available by First Step Internet,
>> > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
>> >              http://www.fsr.net
>> >          mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
>> > =======================================================
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2013 06:06:20 -0800
>> From: Tom Hansen <thansen at moscow.com>
>> To: Moscow Vision 2020 <vision2020 at moscow.com>
>> Subject: [Vision2020] Caturday (January 19, 2013)
>> Message-ID: <62F5B94C-846B-409E-9683-39CFBE887204 at moscow.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Courtesy of Mail Online (London, England) at:
>>
>>
>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2263604/Tiny-obese-kitty-loses-HALF-body-weight-finds-new-home.html?printingPage=true
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>> Now that's something to purr about! Tiny the (very) fat cat loses HALF
>> his body weight and finds a new home
>>
>> Tiny started out at 30.2lbs - about three times the size of average cat
>> He was put on strict calorie-controlled diet
>> Lost half his body weight, now clocking in at 16lbs
>> Adopted by foster parent Nancy Garon
>> Tiny the formerly obese cat has a lot to purr about these days.
>>
>> Not only has he lost half his body weight, the orphaned feline has found
>> a new home.
>>
>> The pudgy pet was dumped outside the Fredericton SPCA in New Brunswick,
>> Canada, just over a year ago weighing a whopping 30lbs.
>>
>> But, after sticking to a strict diet, the ironically-named feline is now
>> fit and healthy and has been officially adopted by foster parent, Nancy
>> Garon.
>>
>>
>> Garon even threw an adoption party for Tiny on Saturday, dressing the
>> noticeably more slender cat in a sparkly bow tie.
>>
>> 'It was a nice way to celebrate all the work, dedication and time that
>> went into Tiny,' LeeAnn Haggerty, the director of education at the shelter.
>>
>> 'She's really bonded with him and it's nice for everyone to know that
>> he'll be doing well in Nancy's care.'
>>
>> The animal has a penchant or bow ties, which are made by some of the many
>> volunteers who have tracked his weight loss progress on Facebook.
>>
>>
>> Donations and sales of Tiny's Ties have already raised $10,000 for the
>> Fredericton SPCA, Today reported.
>>
>> Tiny now ways 16 pounds and the weight loss has transformed his life.
>>
>> 'As soon as he lost the first six pounds you could start to see the
>> changes,' Haggerty said.
>>
>> To not be able to groom yourself must've been pretty frustrating. When he
>> walked, he used to take a few steps, but now he runs all over the place. He
>> is a very playful cat.'
>>
>>
>> In August, the cat had lost more than 10 pounds, weighing in at 19.1lbs.
>> Haggerty said back then that it had taken a lot of hard work to bring
>> Tiny's weight down to that point.
>>
>> 'When he came to the shelter, we knew this weight was a medical
>> emergency, really that obesity in pets can be fatal; his weight was quite a
>> concern,' she told CBS News.
>>
>> Tiny, who at that point was about three times the size of an average
>> house cat, was taken to Dr Nicole Jewett at Valley Veterinary Hospital, who
>> created a special calorie-controlled weight-loss plan for him at a foster
>> home.
>>
>>
>> The drastic weight loss has been accompanied by a significant improvement
>> in Tiny?s appearance and well-being, according to his veterinarian.
>>
>> When the pet first arrived at the center, his coat and eyes were dull,
>> and he could only make a few steps at a time before he would have to lie
>> down.
>>
>> Thanks to his new svelte physique, however, Tiny has become more playful
>> and active.
>>
>> 'He runs, he plays ? it's amazing,' Haggerty said.
>>
>>
>> Another fringe benefit that came as a result of Tiny's impressive
>> slim-down is popularity.
>>
>> Fans send in fabric to the SPCA, which they use to make the signature
>> Tiny ties and sell them on the site Etsy.com to raise medical funds for
>> animals.
>>
>> According to Haggerty, about 40-60 per cent of North American pets are
>> overweight, and in cats, it can lead to diabetes, arthritis, organ issues
>> and even death.
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> Fat cat: When Tiny arrived at the Fredericton SPCA, he weighed in at
>> 30.2lbs, or about three times the size of an average house cat
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> New life: Tiny, pictured, the formerly obese cat has found a new home
>> after losing half his body weight
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------
>>
>> Festive feline: Tiny, pictured, over the holidays is far more active now
>> he's dropped the weight
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------
>>
>> Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
>>
>> "Moscow Cares"
>> http://www.moscowcares.com/
>>
>> Tom Hansen
>> Moscow, Idaho
>>
>>
>>
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>> ------------------------------
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>> End of Vision2020 Digest, Vol 79, Issue 205
>> *******************************************
>>
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>>  List services made available by First Step Internet,
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>
>
>
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