[Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
Sue Hovey
suehovey at moscow.com
Wed Feb 27 22:02:25 PST 2013
Truly it would make everything easier and give clarity, but that’s not the way things work. I give as an example the law that I understand the best. In 1973 PL 94-142 passed the US Congress. It said very specifically that public education funds had to be spent on all students and that included students with disabilities who had been considered incapable of profiting intellectually from a school environment. It’s most significant words were those that forced educators to respond to what, until that time, had been educationally permissible, if you didn’t have an appropriate program the student could simply be ignored, or placed in a program that didn’t even pretend to meet their educational needs, but no longer...students must be educated in the “least restrictive environment.” No longer could students be denied entry into a program if it were the appropriate placement. And if one were not available, an appropriate program had to be implemnted. In Moscow, our daughter was originally denied placement in the Jr. High because they didn’t have programs for her. The law said those programs must be in place. I threatened to sue the district, and of course, it never came to that. (If I had my life to live over I’m not sure sacrificing her happiness for a principle was worth it, but that’s for another day.) So practices began to change, but slowly. However, without the law, they might never have changed in time for her to profit from them, even though there were many state and federal requirements that monies had to be spent on all children.
The Constitution defines all “men” as created equal. But at the time of the writing that word left out half the population, and all the slaves. What, exactly, are the actual perimeters of the word, “men” supposed to mean now? It seems to me to me to be incomplete without further clarification, as has been done historically, through laws and Constitutional Amendments. But who is to say we’ve finally covered everyone? Not I.
Sue H.
From: Darrell Keim
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 4:34 PM
To: Joe Campbell
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
You cut to the heart of it for me, Joe. Where is the correct place for theory to meet practice? If only that were clear! SUre would make life easier.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Joe Campbell <philosopher.joe at gmail.com> wrote:
Similar points were made by Rose and Art and others but here is my attempt.
It says in the US Constitution that all men are created equal. One might ask: Why did we need the Emancipation Proclamation? After all, it says in the US Constitution that all men are created equal.
This strikes me as a similar point to the one that you are making, Darrell, and where I can certainly celebrate the logic of the point (we shouldn't need to say "Oh, and these men are equal, too") as well as the celebration of legal minimalism (the fewer laws, the better). Theory is one thing but as practice would have it, sometimes we have to be more explicit and formulate more explicit laws that will get the job done.
Or does Wayne wish to say that the Emancipation Proclamation was just a waste of time? Of course, he wouldn't want to say that. But that is my point. Redundancy is not always a bad thing if it achieves the right goals.
By the way, a tip of the hat to Randy Fife for saying that the new law attempts to seek "compliance" not "punishment." These are difficult issues. But rights are rights.
Best, Joe
PS I really do like Wayne a lot but if I were advising him, I would steer him away from broad, philosophical issues.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 3:21 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
I always thought the Constitution itself covered this. Something about all men being created equal, certain inalienable rights, so on and so forth. Simple. Elegant. Covers the issue at hand. Whats better than being covered in our nations founding document?
If the original document isn't obvious enough, the 14th amendment elaborates:
Amendment 14
Civil rights
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 2:21 PM, Moscow Cares <moscowcares at moscow.com> wrote:
What other options are available, Mr. Keim.
If you know of any state and/or federal laws that protect citizens against discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identification, please share them with us.
Seeya round town, Moscow, because . . .
"Moscow Cares"
http://www.MoscowCares.com
Tom Hansen
Moscow, Idaho
"There's room at the top they are telling you still
But first you must learn how to smile as you kill
If you want to be like the folks on the hill."
- John Lennon
On Feb 27, 2013, at 2:12 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
Not seeing how adding more laws (and complexity) to the legal system makes lawyers more affordable.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:16 PM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
Darrell,
I'm sorry but very few people can afford to go to court to protect the rights that they are guaranteed by the Constitution and other laws.
Have you priced a decent trial attorney lately? Do you have any idea about the amount of billable hours are needed to pursue a civil rights lawsuit? Do you know how much time and aggravation is involved for the plaintiff in a civil rights lawsuit? And how long it takes? And how the defendants argue that the meaning of the Constitution does not include whatever right is being claimed by the plaintiff?
"Just enforce present laws" has been the watchwords of racists, homophobes, sexists, etc for a long time because they know how little chance there is of enforcement via plaintiff originated lawsuits. That's why we need special laws with enforcement teeth and huge penalties for violators. Until civil rights legislation was enacted during the Lyndon Johnson administration and except for a few brave forays by Eisenhower, black people were basically SOL.
One has to be especially insensitive and/or ignorant not to see that Krauss was comparing gay, transgendered, etc persons to subhuman monkeys -- demeaning language once used to argue against civil rights for blacks.
If Krauss doesn't want to be seen as an ignorant, insensitive bigot, then he needs to change his lifelong habits of speaking and acting like one. Good luck with that.
I agree with Roger Hayes. An apology is not sufficient, An apology is needed, but its sincerity will be in great doubt without a resignation.
w.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Darrell Keim <keim153 at gmail.com> wrote:
Enforcement of current laws is the key. If they are being ignored, why does creation of MORE laws solve anything? They are just as easily ignored.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Sue Hovey <suehovey at moscow.com> wrote:
It seems to me, “We can’t work with the simple rules we have,” because they don’t work. If they did, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
Sue H
From: Darrell Keim
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 9:04 AM
To: Art Deco
Cc: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
I happened to sit next to Wayne yesterday when someone asked him to explain his remarks. He elaborated that his point was that we shouldn't need to have special protections for different groups. We should hold ourselves to the standard of treating all people equally, which our Constitution already guarantees.
While his quote in the paper makes him sound like an idiot (reporters have a way of doing this-context is SO important), I agree with the sentiment he attempted to express. Why can't we work with the simple rule already expressed in our countries founding document: treat others with basic dignity and decency. The guy is not nearly the troglodyte he is being made out to be.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Art Deco <art.deco.studios at gmail.com> wrote:
Aside from its gross insensitivity and ignorance the remarks provide a revelation about Krauss's personal feelings and the lack of comment implying consent by the other semi-conscious officials present, this is part of a longer saga.
There is hardly a month that has gone by since he took office and made a fool of himself starting with his participation and remarks in the Hawkins scandal, that Wayne Krauss hasn't provided ample evidence of the long circulating characterization of him that as the former manager of the Goodyear store he was hit in the head too hard and too many times with a tire iron.
w.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Saundra Lund <v2020 at ssl1.fastmail.fm> wrote:
What a horse’s rear end Krauss continues to show himself to be. Disgusting.
Here’s the article Roger Hayes referred to:
Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted by committee
By Brandon Macz, Daily News staff writer | Posted: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 12:00 am
Considering an ordinance to make housing and job discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity a criminal offense in Moscow, Councilor Wayne Krauss asked City Attorney Randy Fife where demands for more protections would end.
Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys into a business and being refused service would require a discrimination ordinance for monkey owners.
Fife laid out for the Administrative Committee on Monday details of his draft ordinance. Under the ordinance, an employer would not be allowed to refuse to hire or fire a person for their sexual orientation or gender identity, or to deny an employee advancement or training on that same basis. It would also prevent businesses from refusing to serve a person based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.
On the housing side, refusal to sell, buy or rent property or to repair, maintain or improve it would also be prohibited if it were the result of such discrimination, Fife said.
Exceptions include religious entities, other governments and agencies, boarding houses, private clubs or institutions and two-family dwellings, such as duplexes, where the property owner or a relative lives in one of the units.
Krauss was curious about whether businesses, such as restaurants, which often display signs indicating their right to refuse service to anyone, could refuse to serve someone based on their sexual orientation or gender identity without disclosing that as the reason. Fife said if someone felt that was the reason for denial of service, they could file a complaint under the ordinance.
"I hate any kind of bullying whatsoever, and discrimination is a form of bullying, in my mind," Krauss said.
Krauss said he didn't like the idea of the city being forced to react to a continuous list of discriminatory grievances.
"The question is, where does it stop?" Krauss said. "Why doesn't the 14th Amendment cover the whole darn thing?"
The amendment says "No State shall deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
Fife said he prepared the draft after reviewing laws already on the books in Sandpoint, Boise and Salt Lake City and said he favored Boise's. The proposed ordinance would fill a gap in the federal and state human rights acts.
Anyone believing themselves to be discriminated against because of their sexual orientation or gender identity would file a report with the Moscow Police Department, Fife said, which would conduct an investigation and file a report with the city prosecutor to validate whether the claim constitutes an offense under the ordinance.
If so, mediation would be attempted between the two parties by the city attorney with the offender facing a misdemeanor if a resolution can't be met. If the defendant takes remediation steps, the penalty could be reduced to an infraction. Should both parties settle, the charge would be dismissed.
"You want compliance, not punishment. That's the goal," Fife said, adding the criminal process might do better in a separate council resolution.
Fife said pushes on the municipal level could force the issue in the Idaho Legislature, which has historically never passed an amendment to its human rights act covering sexual orientation and gender identity out of committee.
"That's not going to happen, so we'll continue to legislate morality," Krauss said.
The draft ordinance will be reviewed by the city's Fair and Affordable Housing and Human Rights commissions before returning to the Administrative Committee to forward the draft to the full council.
More Well No. 9 problems
Public Works Director Les MacDonald reported the recently reinstalled Well No. 9 pump and motor have to be removed again after testing Friday knocked out power to the well house. Once power was restored, a ground fault was detected, which means something is short-circuiting the electricity being channeled through the pump and motor, he said.
"It means we're in a different situation than before," MacDonald said.
The pump was shut down in June when it stopped functioning and the motor was sent to be repaired by Alstra Technologies in Tempe, Ariz. It was reinstalled in late September, but was shut down again when the electric current became too high and caused the protection unit to shut it down. The motor was returned to Alstra and the pump was analyzed by a Spokane company before both were tested by another manufacturer in Arizona.
The pump and motor were reinstalled in two weeks ago, but further testing in Moscow showed the electric current was still too high and a "whale song" noise occurred when it was reconnected to the system, MacDonald said. Following Friday's outage, he said removal of the pump and motor by crane began Monday and should be completed today. He added an outside consultant may need to be brought in to determine the city's next move. Well No. 9 can produce up to 40 percent of the city's water.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Brandon Macz can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 238, or by email to bmacz at dnews.com.
And, here’s the letter to the editor Roger also referred to:
Basic human rights
Posted: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 12:00 am
Moscow City Councilor Wayne Krauss has implied that refusing service to monkey owners in a business setting is the same as denying fair housing and job rights to residents based on their sexual orientation or gender identity.
As reported by Brandon Macz in "Antidiscrimination ordinance vetted," (Daily News, Feb. 26): "Krauss asked rhetorically whether someone bringing monkeys into a business and being refused service would require a discrimination ordinance for monkey owners."
You must be logged in with the proper services to print this article.
Think about what he is really saying.
Also, according to Macz, Krauss questions "legislating morality." Yet Krauss is forcing his own "morality" on public legislation, denying basic human rights to a sector of the population that he is being paid to serve.
Please, Krauss, apologize for what you said and rethink your stance.
Lisa Kliger
Moscow
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of Rosemary Huskey
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:50 AM
To: rhayes at frontier.com; 'Moscow Vision 2020'
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
I am gobsmacked about Wayne Krauss’ remarks. Where did he make them? Thank you for letting 2020 readers know.
Rose Huskey
From: vision2020-bounces at moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces at moscow.com] On Behalf Of rhayes at frontier.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2013 8:47 AM
To: vision2020 at moscow.com
Subject: [Vision2020] Wayne Krauss
And yesterday Wayne Krauss was quoted that offering equal protection to all citizens including that of sexual identity and orientation to bringing monkeys to a restaurant and demanding service.
In this case crackpot... and a sad reflection on our city council.
For those with short memories:
On a scale of 0 to 10 where 10 is the easiest to be hornswoggled Carscalen
and Krauss are clearly 10s based on how Hawkins and Mr. Slime Steed (acting
in the conflicting roles of city council person and *defacto* agent of his
longtime associates Hawkins) hornswoggled the council into the sweetheart
deal with the now never to be Hawkins mall against the fundamental
interests of Idaho citizens.
How do you choose a GOP leader? From the crackpots or the corrupt?
w.
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Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
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Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)
art.deco.studios at gmail.com
=======================================================
List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
http://www.fsr.net
mailto:Vision2020 at moscow.com
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